The Replaceable Founder with Ari Meisel

Entrepreneur, author, CEO, TED speaker, real estate developer, green building consultant, and productivity expert – Ari Meisel

Ari Meisel is a self-described, “Overwhelmologist” and founder of Less Doing. He is the best-selling author of “The Art of Less Doing”, and “The Replaceable Founder.” He earned the title, “The Guru’s Guru” because of his insights into personal and professional productivity.

He helps entrepreneurs fine-tune their infrastructure, and find focus, flexibility, and freedom in their business. The methodology enables founders to become replaceable so they can scale their business.

Episode Highlights:

Learn the 6 levels of delegation
How to effectively communicate with your team
How to create a feedback loop
How to determine which hats are replaceable in your business
Learn Ari’s three-circle exercise
Tips and tricks in hiring the best employee for your team
How to fast track your newly hired employee
How to deal with business partnership (especially when it’s not going well)

Transcript: Download

Video Transcription provided by GMR Transcription Services.

Jaime: Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I?m Jaime Masters. And today on the show, we have Ari Meisel. Now he?s founder of LessDoing.com. Now who doesn?t want less doing, and talks about being replaceable in your business, which I know every single one of you wants right now. Thanks so much for coming on the show today.

Ari: My pleasure. Thank you. You?d be surprised how many people get freaked out by being replaceable. So, I?m glad you said that.

Jaime: We?re like please take over my work. The biggest problem I find though is that they actually have an inability to let go even if they have people on the team.

So, let?s talk about that first, because it is ? it sounds clich?, but it is totally real that they can?t actually let go even if they have the structure in place.

Ari: Yeah. So, it?s so funny, because in the productivity space, which is where I sort of live, right, there is so much psychology that goes into what I do, and it really feels sometimes like a mix between being a therapist or a psychoanalyst than actually being a business coach, because the things that make people productive or not productive, it?s not about the right tool or the right person honestly in a lot of cases, it really comes down to your feelings about certain things, and control issues are a big thing.

Jaime: Who? Entrepreneurs? Never. No. Not us.

Ari: Right. The inability to let go is a trusting a lot of times, right? So, it?s trust issues. So, I never want to go down a path where I'm dealing with someone?s problem from when they were 12, right? But that?s a lot of times really what feeds into it. So, the inability to let go is, usually there?s a mix of they don?t trust that somebody can do it as well as them, which makes the argument that are they really the only one that can do it that well? So, then they have a real problem with that, right?

Because if we?re gonna let something go, then it?s suggested that we?re not special. And so, that thing isn't that they have ? people have to accept that we are not that unique. None of us are. Right?

There?s a thousand other people that do podcasts just you and me. There?re a thousand other business coaches, probably in your zip code.

Jaime: I thought I was a special snowflake. Thanks for [inaudible] [00:02:04].

Ari: Right. Exactly. And you know, the thing that does make you special and that makes me unique really is our perspective on things and the way that you share that is great, but at the end of the day, if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted. That?s the expression that my college professor, one of them, used to say.

And it?s true. You get stuck. But again, it?s just that we?re fooling ourselves in thinking that you?re the best person at booking airline tickets, right? And I've seen that with Fortune 500 CEOs.

Jaime: Hilarious. So, when we?re looking at the actual trust factor, it?s such a gray area though, right? It?s like okay, potentially I have somebody on my team that could do it, but would they do it as well? There?s all this gray area of like well, they did it once, and then, but they messed it up and now I took it back. Right? There?s too much gray area. How do you get people past that stuff?

Ari: Yeah. I love when someone?s like oh, they messed it up. I took it back. Like see, I knew they couldn?t do it.

Jaime: Exactly.

Ari: And it?s like well, of course they couldn?t. You set them up for failure. So, part of the problem with delegation is that people tend to see it as very binary activity meaning either you do everything or I do everything. And neither one is a really great solution.

In my program, we actually teach something called the six levels of delegation, and there?s ? basically you?re dialing up the level of empowerment and dialing up the level of trust at the same time, but you can have a task that we would call a level-one task or a level six. Level six is like you just do what you gotta do. I just want to see the result.

And level one is do exactly as I say, right? And then there?re things in between that. The exact same task could be a level-one task for one person and a level six for another, and either one is fine, but state that at the outset. You know that that?s what the case is.

And then the other person also does as well. So, there?s basically like a two-sided buy-in.

Jaime: That?s so much clarity though. So, an entrepreneur actually has to understand the levels of nuances of what they are actually giving, and I think the unclearness is what causes most problems in business anyway. How do you actually make it clearer for them?

Ari: Well, we actually have a worksheet for it in my case, but the thing is that ? so, there?s a couple different ways to attack that. So, one is you ? people often try to outsource or delegate a goal rather than an outcome. So, they?ll say something like make us more money, literally. We just want to make more money. Whereas if you say something like we need to enter this new market and create this market and [inaudible] [00:04:29] and that will result in 20 percent increase in revenue. That?s great.

But a lot of people go with the first one, which either you?re gonna give that to somebody who is totally freaked out by it and is paralyzed or somebody who?s like a real cowboy and just feel like well, I'm just going to make it happen, whatever takes

And you end up with this just dissonance between what the person communicated that they wanted and what they got back, and what that really comes down to is that we generally are pretty bad at communication.

Jaime: As a whole as humans. Yeah. Most problems stem from some of that stuff. So, how do you get them to get better at their communication when they?re actually in it, right?

Ari: Yeah. So, really need to create that feedback loop. So, the worksheet that we use as one example, but the worksheet represents something bigger, which is sort of going through the somewhat tedious steps of actually going through what you wanted, describing it, and not making the assumption, but also creating a form where the other person can then say actually this is what I hear that you want, which is essentially what active listening is, but a lot of leaders don?t create that space for their team members to do that. And a lot of team members are afraid to ask, because it would suggest that they don?t know.

Jaime: See. I think this stuff is so interesting. The open level of transparency in communication is really, really huge, but we don?t even realize that we are not doing it. It?s like well, I asked them what their opinion was. And it?s like well, but you asked them with such a tone of voice that they?re like no, everything?s great. Everything?s fine. Right? Or whatever that piece is. There're so many nuances to that. How long does it take for somebody to get better at communicating clearly so you can actually see an end result?

Ari: Do you remember the board game Othello?

Jaime: Yes. I love that game.

Ari: Do you remember the tagline of it?

Jaime: No.

Ari: Five minutes to learn, a lifetime to master.

Jaime: Good answer to that question, because there was no good way to answer it. I love it. Okay.

Ari: But you also ? people have to accept that the communication game is a journey that has no end.

Jaime: Yeah.

Ari: Right? And some people are not okay with that, but you have to be okay with that to really progress and just know that it?s kinda like dancing, you know? When you?re dancing, there?s no goal. There?s no end to the dance except I guess when the song ends, but you?re not trying to get to the top of a mountain. You?re not trying to get to the end of the row, right? You?re just dancing.

Jaime: See. When I had my kid 12 years ago, I remember I started coaching, and I took classes on active listening and stuff. I'm like you know what? Worse comes to worst, it?s going to help me with my kids when they?re teenagers, and oh my gosh, thank goodness I took that back then, because I didn?t even realize what I was missing at the time, so I highly want to recommend everybody go see about active listening. Actually understand what that is, because that alone is enough. You have something to say about that?

Ari: There?s a great book called How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Will Talk. It?s helped most of my relationships in a lot of ways, that book. It?s incredible.

Jaime: When you?re saying, you also have four kids, so I'm sure it?s really potent for you also.

Ari: Right.

Jaime: That?s awesome. Well, let me ask you this, because I think as a business owner, especially starting ? if you were a solo printer at the evening, right, there?re so many new things to learn that we don?t even realize when we?re going to the business growth aspect.

And so, when we start thinking about all the hats that each person has to wear, how do you guys help people determine which hat should be replaceable first?

So, if we?re like okay, yes. Admin makes sense. A lot of people start with admin stuff, because it?s the lower-level cost thing, but what do you guys do? What?s the ascension model of that?

Ari: So, it starts with a very, very basic exercise, which I call my three-circles exercise, and I can tell you what it is. It?s really sort of [inaudible] [00:07:59], right? You put three circles on a piece of paper. And the first circle or the top circle, whatever you want, is the things that you?re excellent at, the middle circle is things that you?re competent at but not excellent at, and the third one is things that you?re bad at but you still do them.

And so, if you ? and then you do three to five things in each one. Now when you do that, what we invariably find, which I love is an exercise, it?s so simple, but it?s really telling is that the top one, the excellent one, is that?s the stuff we should focusing on, obviously.

The middle one, the things that you?re competent, typically that?s the team members that you need to have on your team, and the stuff that you?re bad at is stuff that you just straight up be outsourcing. Generally, that?s what we see.

So, bad at for most entrepreneurs is almost always bookkeeping or finances, and most small companies, especially companies in the first couple years of business, don?t need a bookkeeper on staff or a CPA on staff. There?s tons of [inaudible] [00:08:49] to outsource those to.

Writing is a big one in my company, and I can write, but I'm not particularly efficient at it. I think I?m decent at it, but I?m not efficient at it, and it?s not something I'm excellent at, but it?s a really important part of our business. So, we have a writer on our team.

Jaime: That?s awesome. How many ? so, how did you make that as an actual core hire, because normally I'd be like oh, I'm gonna hire a ghost writer. I?m going to do this, but of course the nuances of learning your voice and your language also takes time and energy too. How did you go, you know what? It?s going to be an actual staff.

Ari: Well, actually it was. So, we actually created a process called the voice print, which is really cool. We use it with a bunch of our clients to help sort of figure out what their voice is, but that?s a fun one too. So, I?ll sort of answer your question in a bit of a roundabout way.

I love that when people like oh, but they just ? they couldn't capture my voice. So, again first of all, we go back to the thing it?s like your not ? your voice is not that special, right? It?s your voice, yes okay, but it?s not the voice of whatever.

But the other thing is it?s like ? and I've had this exact interaction with four [inaudible] [00:09:50] and say they can?t capture your voice. How did you tell them what you wanted them to write? And they?re always like oh, well, I wrote out this whole brief. I said you wrote it out, right? So, how are they supposed to capture your voice from that? Why don?t you record it with your voice, and it doesn?t solve the problem, but it gets 80 percent of the way there for most of them.

Jaime: Well, because ? language.

Ari: And they never think of that. It?s like ?

Jaime: Sorry. Go ahead.

Ari: Well, they just never think of doing it that way. They never think of sort of changing modalities when they?re conveying interaction, but they can't [inaudible] [00:10:19] communication.

Jaime: And there?re so many different pieces and tone of voice and the way that you do it that really matters that you can?t pick up in your writing anyway, but you could write more like it like you were saying for the voice. I actually had a ?

Ari: I?m sorry.

Jaime: Oh. Go ahead.

Ari: No. There?s just this wonderful example. Do you know who Cameron Herold is?

Jaime: Of course.

Ari: Yeah. Okay. So, Cameron did this thing on stage once. It was a slide, and it said, ?I didn't say you were beautiful.? And he had the audience go through and emphasize each word one of the time where it says like ?I? didn't say you were beautiful, or I ?didn?t? say you were beautiful, or I didn't say ?you? were beautiful. Right? So, but as a written word, that?s six different things right there but not written.

Jaime: Perception is very important in any type of communication, right? Fighting with your spouse and being like you said it like this tone. Right? Oh wait, I didn?t mean it like that though, totally different sides of a same conversation. Well, it?s funny, I had a copywriter that I felt like had my voice better than I could, and she got hired by Agora, and I was like ? you know, because I haven't found a copywriter that has mimicked my voice better than I ever could before, but again, maybe I need to take your class and have some tips on how to teach someone on that a little bit more. I love that.

Okay. So, once we start going okay, this is what we?re competent at, we now have that list, right? Let?s say we got rid of all the bad stuff, because everybody knows the pain of trying to do something bad, it?s a little easier, like bookkeeping and finances, it?s like thank goodness, that?s a little easier to let go, but the competent ones, let?s say they can?t hire the amount of people just because of cash flow, right? Do they just slog through it? Do they ? what did they do? Do they just have a game plan to hire? What?re the next steps on those?

Ari: So, there?re so many specialties where [inaudible] [00:11:58] at really efficient costs, and it just say ? give us some breathing room even if we need to. There?s a service that we use actually called ContentFly, which is $249 a month for 5,000 words of anything. And they?re amazing. They?re really good. And we use them for overflow stuff. So, when my writer is like got a lot on her plate, she?ll give stuff off to them, and they capture the voice totally fine.

Jaime: And they?re good. Really? That?s amazing.

Ari: Yeah. And you can even get people on Fiverr sometimes to do writing, but this is the key, to test people. So many people, especially when it comes to creative services like writing and graphic design, they?ll say to somebody like show your portfolio. I never ever want to see somebody?s portfolio. That?s just ? that to me is not an accurate sort of show of what they?re going to be able to do.

I always want to give somebody something that?s really bad and have them fix it, right? So, you give a copywriter a really crappy copy and say make this better. That shows you what somebody?s capable of doing. You give somebody a logo and say make this better. That really shows you ingenuity. So, it has ? also they can act on a small ? and then they can work with you, because I?ve had plenty of people that would be like no. I'm not wasting my time doing this. It?s like well, then you?re not a really good fit. So, it?s a very, very quick and easy way to test freelancers really efficiently.

Jaime: That?s awesome. Okay. I love that tip. So, you must?ve gotten really good at helping people hire then and really vetting out the process. I like that smile. So, tell me a little ? a few tips that you have in regards to that, because most people suck at hiring and then hate their team because they hired C players and didn?t realize it.

Ari: Yeah. So, that?s one example. It?s like when you need somebody ? so, like give you a work example [inaudible] [00:13:40] something bad, same thing with programmers. Never say make me an Amazon button on this page. No. It?s like something?s not working on this page. Fix it. So, that?s one is giving them those opportunities.

Another one is that I think that the vast majority of businesses do a very bad job of giving people a realistic training environment for what they?re doing. So, anybody that we hire, they work ? they literally ? they?ll work with us for a couple weeks, and in the virtual assistant company that you [inaudible] [00:14:13] I used to run, we actually had a separate environment with a separate [inaudible], separate trellis, separate like everything, and they were doing real tasks for members of our team.

So, I think most businesses don?t create that kind of environment because I love when somebody?s like I have 25 years of experience with copywriting. It?s like yeah. So, and that should be respected, absolutely, but they?ve never done copywriting with me, and that?s not to say that I?m better or anything, it?s just different.

Jaime: Definitely different. Every entrepreneur does think they?re a special snowflake though, just as I know, and think that their level of excellence is something that nobody else can compete with and all this, that, and the other thing, but I see it over and over and over again that they don?t even communicate clearly or train in the way, and then they go, well, then they suck. Look at this mistake and this mistake and this mistake, right? And they?re showing up ?

Ari: And then I have to hire again.

Jaime: Yes.

Ari: Right? Because why would I ?

Jaime: Yes. I mean and don?t get me wrong, in that situation, no. You suck at it. Don?t do it. Right? But if we want to learn that skill set, what do you suggest for the training environment? Let?s say they?re not using you guys to actually give them a training environment, and as a super busy entrepreneur that barely has time to train anyway, what do you suggest to try to fast-track that as best as they can?

Ari: Just shadowing honestly. You have to let the people shadow your work, because that?s a really interesting ? it?s a great question, because you take an entrepreneur who has something that is unique, and it?s a subjective process. So, I?ll give you ? a perfect example is somebody came to us once. They?re a lawyer. They had six partners in the law firm, and then there was a senior partner. And I said what?s your biggest challenge? He said it?s my father, the senior partner, because all six of us have to give our documents to my father for ultimate review before we can send anything out. It?s a huge [inaudible] [00:16:03].

I was like okay. Have you ever documented the review process? He?s like oh yeah, yeah. We do this and then we give it off to him. I was like no, no, no. Have you ever documented his review process? He?s like well no. I mean he?s just been doing it for 40 years, and he ? I was like do me a favor. Just stand over his shoulder and watch him do it for a couple days and ask him why he makes the changes that he makes.

And within about four days, he was able to create a decision tree so that ? the father still wanted control, but the six partners are able to fix those things before they got to him and reduce those issues. So, it?s the kind of thing where it?s like oh, he just knows it when he sees it, or she got like a gut instinct for it. Watch them do it and ask questions. And so, that?s what you ultimately can do with training is you just tell somebody just watch me do this for a couple days, and then you try to do it. There're plenty of people who are very capable of doing that.

Jaime: I so appreciate that example, because even in my life, I'm like okay, I'm a coach, but it?s so hard for me to explain what I?m doing. Yeah. When I have someone else listen and ask me questions. We made a whole decision tree. I was like oh, I guess that is how that works even though I wouldn't ? if I sat down to try to write that, there?s no way that I could?ve.

Ari: Here?s a fun one as a coach, because I always tell my coach, you know, there?s a tool called Otter.ai. I don?t know if you've heard of it.

Jaime: No.

Ari: So, Otter, it?s an iPhone app, but it also has integrations with [Inaudible] [00:17:20], and I think Skype too, but it?s a transcription ? I mean it?s a recording service that transcribes live and will ? like you can go back to a specific word, and it will play it from that point. But start looking at your word clouds of the words that come up very often, and I can guarantee you, you?re saying 20 percent of the exact same thing at every coaching session.

Jaime: Seriously. This is exactly what ? okay. I love that. We actually do it with all of our surveys or whenever we have any onboarding for a new client. They have to take something. We did a whole word cloud over what they wanted, and it was like revenue is like this big. Right?

Ari: Right.

Jaime: I was like that?s very telling. I've never done that with mine though, that?s a great ? and plus I need one. So, thanks for that tip. So, we were talking beforehand about business partnerships. And I know ? I just want to touch on this, because you?re open to talking about it. You had a business partnership that did not go very well, and I know so many people that are stuck in a situation right now that?s sort of like gray or crappy and on it?s way to a potentially business divorce, right? I guess is what we?ll call it. Can you give us some history or tips or anything you have to say on this?

Ari: This is funny you mention divorce, because my business partner and I had to go to a couples therapist. I love that. I mean I don?t love that, because that?s horrible, but I love that you actually did that.

Jaime: Yeah. And so, the big sort of takeaways for me, one is that we did not have well-differentiated roles, well enough differentiated roles, or rather, we kinda did, but then the lines got crossed a little bit and became a real issue. Ultimately, at the end of the day with my partnership, the issue was that we had very different views of the future of the company, very different visions for the company.

Mine was a lot smaller and a lot more sort of boutique, and his was a lot bigger and more Uber like, which both have their merits. That was one.

And then the other thing is that my partner was single, and I have a wife and four kids. So, the motivations for the work that we do are very different, which I admit I don?t have the same hustle feeling that a lot of entrepreneurs might have. So, there were those two main [inaudible] [00:19:29] sort of working against us. And it just got to the point where I decided to walk away and asked him to buy me out, but we did have to work with a couples therapist. We actually worked with Cameron ?

Jaime: Oh. No way.

Ari: ? on some of the stuff in terms of defining roles. And the couples therapist was actually instrumental in making it more of a conscious uncoupling I guess if you want to call it that, and it worked out well. I mean I think that there?s still doing well, and I got to go back to what I really like to do and how I like to do it.

You know, part of the problem with [inaudible] [00:19:58] entrepreneur is we like to do things our way.

Jaime: Who knew?

Ari: And so, that makes partnerships very difficult. It makes partnerships really difficult unless very, very clear lines are drawn. So, the big take away for me would have been that we should?ve sat down and figured out our vision for the company at like month 3 instead of month 15, and then our roles around at the same time as well, because I think then what that does it that it takes the subjectivity out of it.

Jaime: A million times yes, and then it?s all on paper or whatever it?s on so that way the disagreements can always go back to what that is, but a lot of people don?t have that as a foresight, especially because I know that company data?s you guys sort of went we did this in a year or something. You know what I mean. It was sort of a fly.

Ari: Yeah. We hit a million dollars in our first year. We had 180 people working for us. When was really ? we really quickly.

Jaime: Yeah. So, you weren't just trying to survive with the growth let alone go what is our vision in three ? and I get why we should be doing that, but do you have any tips or advice or want to slap people so that they actually do it instead of just going I heard it on a podcast. I know it?s good, but priorities right now are tough.

Ari: Yeah. I mean ? so, again, back to Cameron actually, he?s got this book on Double Double, which has the Vivid Vision process in it. I mean it?s an hour or two of your time and really, really worthwhile, because you might surprise yourself, whether you have a partner or not, I would suggest doing that, and there are other tools for writing out company visions.

This one just happens to be a really sort of easy one to follow and figure out, but ? and a lot of people might say like well, I'm too young in the company. I don?t know where I want to be in five years. And I don?t want you to know where you?re going to be in five years either, and it?s probably not going to happen anyway, but you need to have some sort of sense of that, because look, it?s just like a marriage. Again, as you mentioned divorce, like if two people go into it and then six months after they?re married, one says I want kids and the other one says I don?t, that?s a big deal.

It?s the same thing in business. You know, I wanna go into six different countries. I don?t. Right? And what that?s going to require. So, and then also sort of figure out or speaks to what you?re willing to put into it.

Jaime: Well, okay, yeah. So, I want to talk about that in just a second. What?s funny is I literally re-downloaded Vivid Vision yesterday, because I told my client that she needs to actually do it, so I'm re-listening to it again this morning, funny that you brought it up.

So, when you start talking about what you would?ve done differently, do you think that you could?ve actually been on the same page even if it ? not ? sorry. Not on the same page, been okay with the differences like hey, I only want to work 20 hours a week just so you know, and I'm going to get this far, and this is going to be a role, and that?s it, and you create those clear lines.

Ari: Yeah. I think so, and also we were 50/50 partners, so I think that there probably would've been an adjustment there as well which would have been wanted. So, yeah, 100 percent I think. Even we hadn't stayed together as partners, I think that we could?ve avoided a lot of friction, because ultimately, we were ? I mean he and I were best friends at the time too.

Jaime: Wow. Agh. Okay. And that makes it ridiculously tough. And those are the stories that I hear all the time. I was actually chatting with a client the other day that ? I and I?m wondering if you can give some feedback on this. So, there?s an issue though when you?re really good friends, and especially with somebody who might be emotionally volatile, and I?m not saying this happened to you, I?m just saying what do you do at that point, because ?

Ari: What do you mean! No.

Jaime: [Laughter] Right. Entrepreneurs are crazy. Just so we know. But he?s like I don?t even want to broach the subject, because I feel like that?ll take us down a path. And I'm like well eventually it?s gonna happen anyway, so where are we at in terms of that?

Ari: So, I had a ? there?s only two or three things that I actually sort of take with me still from college. And so, one of them was Professor Bass who had over 100 companies that he was involved in. But he was talking about the prenup that he did with his wife and how prenups and stuff and [inaudible] [00:23:48] to business, and he said you always want to negotiate the prenup while you?re in love, you know, because that?s the best time to do it, because he said that?s why I?m giving her the house and I'm giving her all the stuff right upfront, because we?re in love.

So, it?s the same thing. There?s that honeymoon phase to partnerships and to starting a company, and that?s the time to do it. And yeah, it might be an awkward conversation, but it?ll be a lot more awkward later.

Jaime: Well, what if it?s already past that I guess, because it sounds like it?s already past that point unfortunately.

Ari: Right. And so, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, right? The next best time to plant a tree is today.

Jaime: I love that advice. I'm not sure he?s going to love that advice. But I ?

Ari: [Crosstalk] [00:24:26] put it this way. Whether you convince him or listening to me convinces him, something, some day will convince him.

Jaime: Well, that?s ? I was saying the pain is going to get great enough anyway, so it?s like oh, do you want to cut off my hand today or in a year? Well, you know what? I don?t want my hand cut off, but it is what it is.

Ari: Well, I?ll just point out something about that too, because there?s a really interesting ? if you look at a model of where you?re headed in the future, right, and so let?s just say you?re going across this way, right? And if you ? we?re doing videos here, right?

Jaime: Yes.

Ari: If you?re progressing right, you?re going up and away from the line if you?re really progressing. And if you?re falling or you?re not growing, they?re going like this. That?s pretty obvious, right? The thing that most people don?t realize is that whether that timeline is two months or three years or six years, whatever, the endpoint here down at the bottom where you like suck and bankrupt and whatever, that?s not the hard part.

The hard part is this, right? That?s the part that sucks, because once you?re bankrupt, it?s like okay, well entrepreneurs ? it?s like ? that?s like a badge of honor. Right? They start over. But it?s the getting there that is the hard, painful, risky, costly part. So, avoid that upfront, and also it?s a lot easier to make that change back here than it is down here.

Jaime: Such good advice. I just interviewed Susie Batice from the potpourri thing, and she was like the bankruptcy was the best thing ever, because then it gave me permission to do ? it doesn?t matter, I?m already at the bottom. There?s nowhere to go but up. It?s the down not making progress that makes the biggest issue for an entrepreneur?s self-esteem and everything. I mean family, all that stuff.

So, delaying that doesn?t help anything. All right. I?m so [inaudible] [00:26:01] in this. So, I know we have to start wrapping up, because you?re kiddos are sick, but what is one action listeners can take this week to help move them forward towards their goal of a million?

Ari: Honestly, the first thing would be ? or the one thing I would say is sort of like take stock or just do some tracking on your time, on how you're spending your time. Because it?s too easy when we?re overwhelmed to just assume that we?re busy, and then tell people how busy we are without actually realizing how you?re actually spending your time.

There is a device, which I thought I had here, but there?s a device ?

Jaime: Wait. One of these?

Ari: Yes! You have it!

Jaime: I have it too.

Ari: All right. All right. So, time tracking isn't going ? like [inaudible] [00:26:41] for a long time. I think that is one of the best devices on the market for ?

Jaime: I agree. Mostly because I don?t remember to hit a [inaudible] on my laptop, but this is in my face. It?s changing. I was like move it right now, but it?s called the Timeular just for everybody. Keep going.

Ari: Well, and so, do you have it on podcasting right now?

Jaime: No. I didn't. Nope. I ? I don?t have ? I have a content creation one, but ?

Ari: Okay. But so the thing that?s great about it also besides that is that it really prevents multitasking, right, because if you switch tasks, you kinda have to switch it, and you?re like uh no, I'm not going to do that.

So, it?s an excellent tool. But just do that for a couple days, because what you?ll end up finding too is that you have a P-time where you?re really, really productive. There are times in the day where you do things than at others, and the idea of reducing your work week becomes a lot more realistic when you actually look at what you?re reducing.

Jaime: Right. I need to highlight this, because everybody hates coaches when they tell you to do this. I hate it when my coach tells me to do this, because I grit my teeth. But one of the most effective things you could ever do, by the way, as painful as it is, thank you for reminding us that we need to go do that again, because it?s not a one-and-done and you never have to do it, it does have to be repeated.

Ari: Oh yeah.

Jaime: Over time. Awesome. Where do we find out more about you? I know you have a podcast. All that fun stuff.

Ari: So, everything is at LessDoing.com. The podcasts, the books, the programs on this stuff, but we also have this really great, completely free sort of mini course that your listeners might like, which they can go to Less.do/foundations and check that out, and it takes ? I think there?s like five videos, it takes them through my project management, inbox, [inaudible] [00:28:07] all that kinda stuff, and that?s a really good place to start.

Jaime: Super cool domain name, Less.do. That?s really cool. Awesome.

Ari: [Crosstalk] [00:28:16] ?

Jaime: The new age we live in. I know. It?s like oh. That was smart. That was very, very smart. I like it.

Ari: Ty.

Jaime: Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really, really, really appreciate it.

Ari: Thanks for having me.

[End of Audio]

Duration: 29 minutes

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