The discomfort of pursuit with Kelsey Ramsden

Consultant, advisor, provocateur – Kelsey Ramsden

Kelsey Ramsden is a serial entrepreneur and business powerhouse. She was named Canada’s Top Female Entrepreneur twice and is recognized globally for building multi-million-dollar businesses. In this episode, Kelsey talks about balancing your personal life and business to be happy.

Things you will learn from Kelsey:

• How to mitigate your goals and being happy in your life
• How to push yourself out of your comfort zone
• How to know your limitation and take risks
• How to balance your personal life and business

Kelsey’s Website:

SuccessHangover.com

Transcript: Download

Video Transcription provided by GMR Transcription Services.

Jaime:	Welcome to Eventual Millionaire, I am Jaime Masters, and I am excited to have Kelsey Ramsden on the show. You can check her out at KelseyRamsden.com. She?s a mom of three and a bunch of other amazing things, but she also was named, twice, Canada?s Top Female Entrepreneur. That?s ridiculously impressive. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. 

Kelsey:	Thanks for having me.

Jaime:	How the heck do you get named twice? Let alone once, but how do you get named twice? 

Kelsey:	I know, it?s a bit silly. I guess I did okay, and that I kept doing okay, and then, in all honesty, the third year I said it?s not cool, this repeat. That?s just being greedy. So don?t put my name in the running. Yeah, I guess in some ways, it was the best thing that ever happened to me, and the worst thing that ever happened to me. I think a lot of people strive for this sense of accomplishment and success, and potentially notoriety, and that comes with a lot of unintended consequences that a lot of us don?t understand until we arrive at that place, and find out that success is a fickle friend, you know?

Jaime:	Let?s dive into that, though, because I think everybody, especially ? we?ve got a lot of successful people listening to the show, and they go, ?Oh, I?m running, running towards the millionaire myth,?  or whatever it is, and then they get there and they?re like, ?Oh, we still have problems. Awesome!? Or different problems, or ? no one would assume that being named Top Female Entrepreneur twice is a bad thing, right? Tell me a little bit more about all that. 

Kelsey:	Yeah, I mean, I did the same as everyone does, right? You say I wanna make a million dollars. That seems like a good number. So you go, you do that, in my case, the accountant says, ?Oh, remember you said you wanted to do that? We did that three months ago.? And you?re like, ?Oh, okay.? You realize that, at least for me, having those monetary goals are super important, but really there?s no material difference between, like, $800,995.00, $900,200.00. It?s so incremental. It?s very rare that, you know, these jazz hands six-figure launches and all that stuff is cool, but it?s not my jam. 

And there are a very few people who pull that off, and I think they?re amazing, but for most of us, the way we make our money and earn our wealth is incrementally. And so, a few things. No. 1, often you don?t even realize you passed the finish line as it were. So there?s no big parade and orgasmic ah-ha moment. 

Jaime:			What? Darn it. What the Hell? [Giggles]

Kelsey:	I know, it?s like, that?s good. Uh, okay. And then often times, on the flip side of that, there?s a hollowness that comes, because we spend so much energy and focus and attention on arriving at this place, believing it?s going to fill some thing, solve some thing, and it solves many things. Money is a beautiful, beautiful thing. But it then, of course, it comes with its own subset of interesting things. And money can change ? you know what I often say is in proportion, success amplifies your weaknesses. So, whatever your weakness is, and we all have them, and let?s be honest about it. 

Everyone has a hoard of them. No one has just one. We all have a ton. Mine can be doing the laundry and not putting it away. Mine can be driving too fast. Mine can be spending too much money when I?m in a moment of success being like, ?I?m gonna buy that car.? Whatever. Take whatever those things are, and just make them bigger, because now you have the opportunity to hire a maid. Okay, well, I?m not even gonna do the laundry, you know, do this. And so, those things that you maybe feel like could use some attention, we often think, ?Oh, when I?m rich.? Or, ?When I?ve made it.? Hiring the maid is gonna solve it. 

No, it actually only makes you feel worse about your shortcoming of leaving some poor woman this huge pile of mess, right? So, all I?m driving at is not to say it?s terrible, because it?s super amazing to be successful, but what it is, is I think we all arrive at this place thinking it?s the answer, and really the answer is the same whether you have two dollars, minus $127,000.00, plus 5 million, and a lot of us learn that the hard way. We spend all our lives working really hard, missing out on a lot of other things, to fill this thing we think is gonna solve the problem. To arrive there and go oh my God, I have a success hangover. I feel terrible after this big thing. And no one understands that, too, and it sounds really first-world problem-y, to be like, ?I have everything.? 

Jaime:			Yeah.

Kelsey:		But I?m unhappy. And people are like ?

Jaime:			And they?re like ?Poor you, go buy something. Be quiet.? 

Kelsey:		Totally. So sad. So sad for the millionaire. [Giggles] 

Jaime:	But that?s a good point. People are living in the future of when something will actually happen, knowing, or not knowing, that it ever will exist. So we sort-of ? it?s funny, your site talks a lot about future proofing, but we?re sort-of ? is that a bad thing, to always be looking at the future? Because sometimes goals are a wonderful thing. How do you mitigate the goals that you want and the oh, I will be happy when, part? 

Kelsey:	Yeah, so this is the thing. Future proofing, to me, is this idea that there is no arrival. The terrible fact, and this will hurt some people?s feelings and hearts, but the truth of the matter is that people like us, ambitious people, driven people, we actually never arrive. We want to. We wish we could. We wish we were like normal people who are totally satiated by whatever it is. We?re not like that. We got the degree, wanted to do more. Made the money, thought we wanted more. Went on a trip, booked another one. Got an amazing marriage, decided we wanted to work on it still. There is never the end. And to us, comfort is in the discomfort of pursuit. 

	Unless we?re a little bit challenged, we?re not having a good time. So this idea of future proofing is looking at ? none of us know who we wanna be when we grow up. I?m 42. We think this future self is something better. But the idea is, if you actually wanna live in the present, which I think most of us would like to do, actually enjoy the life we have, it?s really about taking these opportunities to strategically engineer situations where our mind is demanded to come to attention. This idea that ? are you okay with doing something weird? 

Jaime:	Oh, totally.

Kelsey:	Okay, great. So ? and all the listeners can play along. So, we?re gonna do something weird.

Jaime:	Okay.

Kelsey:	And the reason we?re gonna do something weird is because most of us are waiting for this big ah-ha moment. When we figure out what business it is, the big solution, the big something, right? So, we?re living in this future, waiting for the ah-ha to break through the clouds, like, ?Aaa?? And we wonder why that never happens. We wonder why we?re always in strife, and we wonder why we always feel kind-of susceptible to being disrupted by something. So, we?re gonna do this weird thing, and then I may explain why it matters, cool? Okay, I?m gonna ask you two questions. You are not going to answer them out loud.

Jaime:	Okay.

Kelsey:	You are going to answer them in your head, and then I?m gonna read your mind, and I?m gonna be right 93% of the time. 

Jaime:	Ooo, telepathy, I didn?t know, on the show.

Kelsey:	So <p data-wpview-marker="%5Baudio%20defect%5D">.</p> [00:08:23] people listening, you know, 930,000 of them, or sorry, 930,000 of the million people are gonna get this right. 

Jaime:	Okay.

Kelsey:	I?m gonna get their ? right. Okay, so first question is, I want you to think about something that you know. Something specific that you know really well. 

Jaime:	Okay.

Kelsey:	Just anything, whatever comes to mind. Got it?

Jaime:	Yep.

Kelsey:	Cool. Now I want you to think about something you remember. Something specific, a memory. Something you remember. 

Jaime:	Okay.

Kelsey:	Cool. So, here?s when I read your mind. So the thing that you know really well, it could be taught. Is that correct?

Jaime:	Yeah, I guess so, yeah. I?m weird, so yeah, yeah. You could. Okay. 

Kelsey:	Great. The thing that you remember, your memory, it?s gonna have three tags to it. Okay, cool. One is gonna be highly emotive. So, love, loss, hate, fear, yes?

Jaime:	Yep.

Kelsey:	Okay. The next is going to be, it could not be repeated, the exact same way twice. 
Jaime:	Nope. 

Kelsey:	Yep, perfect. And then the third one is, that you shared it with another human being, either by virtue of by you did it with them ?

Jaime:	Yep.

Kelsey:	? or you talked, like a human element, not on [inaudible] [00:09:50] or something, yeah?

Jaime:	(Giggles.) Yes. 

Kelsey:	Yes. Okay, so ta-da. I win the ? like, I should take that on the road. That?s how I should make my money.

Jaime:	[Giggles]

Kelsey:	No, but, so here?s how I know this to be true, is that our mind is ? or kind-of soft tissue, is wired up a very specific kind of way. And so, when we?re masters, when we?re ambitious, when we?re driven people, we categorize information in a very specific way. And over time we get really good at the thing that we do. You?re a great interviewer. I?m great at math and building things. Whatever you?re great at. You?re great at marketing. Everyone who?s listening is great at a thing. Great for you. When you get better and better at that, your mastery becomes mundane. You get really bored. You?re actually bored out. A lot of people think it?s burnt out, bored out. 

And so, the reason that that matters, is most of us define ourselves by that thing. So the thing that you think, thought of, the thing you could teach, the thing I could teach ? I?m an engineer, or I?m a this, or I?m a marketer, I?m an interviewer. If you could teach it, no offence to, you know, all the smart monkeys, but it?s not really that special. There?s a hundred million other people who could do that same thing. What?s special is you as an individual human being. That?s the only thing that differentiates you ? me from every other MBA in the world, is that I?m Kelsey Ramsden. And so we put all this value in that first thing, and very little value in the second thing, which is the sum of our memories. 

So, here?s what?s really interesting, is that the way that we categorize information, where ? how our minds work, the reason that I could tell what you were gonna think first is because highly emotive things that won?t be repeated the same way twice, make our minds show up. It goes, wait a minute. Show up for this. This isn?t like driving home from work, where you take the left turn, and you?re like, ?I don?t even remember doing that.? This is life, it?s happening right now. Like, [claps] hey. So the reason that matters is we spend so much of our time as adults in mastery, who are decent at a thing, actually living in default. We?re not making choices anymore. We order the same coffee, we go the same way to work, we see the same friends, we go to the same restaurants, same, same, same. So why do you think your mind is in neutral? Sad, but it?s true. 

Jaime:			Okay. 

Kelsey:	And so the way to engineer these ah-ha moments, the way to kinda break through that mundane, whether it?s life, business, I call it the missionary sex of your career. 

Jaime:			[Giggles]

Kelsey:		It?s decent, it counts, but it?s hardly memorable. 

Jaime:			It counts. [Giggles]

Kelsey:	It counts, right? But you?re not gonna say on June the 5th, in 2017, I had the ?

Jaime:			No, yeah.

Kelsey:	Fine, again, good. But not memorable, and that?s what we?re actually after is ambitious people who wanna be successful, we?re after the ah-ha moments. Those things where we take these individual, who we are, abilities to solve problems, be ingenious, etcetera. But what we do is we live our life in neutral. When we get to a reasonable place, and we kind-of go along humming fine, and wonder why our business isn?t growing, our relationships are not that satisfying, and really we like to place the blame everywhere else, but it?s actually us. We?re not changing anything. So the big ah-ha is ? so I call this the three E model, and the fourth E is epiphany. 

So, it?s based on emotion, experience that could not be repeated the same way twice. The third thing is embed it through story telling. You have to do that piece. If you do those three things strategically every day, in a small way or a big way, you will demand the fourth thing, which is the fourth E, the epiphany. It will come to you. I absolutely, 110% guarantee it. And the reason I know that it works is because I do this. A lot of my successful friends do this. And it?s a lifestyle. It?s actually a way or being. So when you say to me, how do you future proof yourself? How do you live in the present moment? How do you engineer this success? How do you have more ah-ha moments, and be more really alive, and show up? It?s just that. It?s that kind of simple, and that hard. And so I would invite anyone who?s listening to your show to give it a go. Don?t do something crazy like jump out of a plane immediately, but how about just ordering something different at your local coffee place? 

Or better yet, go to a different one. Or better yet, invite a stranger out for dinner, someone you semi-met, and it?s uncomfortable. Go to an art show opening when you?re not into art, and ask a stupid question of someone. Put yourself in these positions where your mind is forced to show up. You know?

Jaime:	Definitely. That?s where I was gonna ask, because the entrepreneurs that are listening also might go on the jumping off the bridge, the uncalculated crazy risk thing. So where ? I was gonna ask, where is that line? Because it?s a wonderful thing to be able to push yourself outside your comfort zone, so that way you are feeling the moment, but we could also just jump on every bandwagon, you know what I mean? In business, back in the day, I?d be like, ?Oh, squirrel, squirrel, squirrel.? Right? Now I?m interested, but then their business doesn?t actually grow because they?re going crazy. Where is that line?

Kelsey:	So the line is, if it?s ? and I can be totally ? I?m susceptible to the squirrels. So I read you. If it is something that makes you feel uncomfortable, it?s better. So if it feels like excitement, that?s kind-of ? look, it?s like love and lust, okay? So, lust is convenient. It?s fun. It?s all these amazing things, but when something hard comes up, poof, it?s done. Love is enduring, and challenging, and forces growth, and ? right? When something good?s hard, you wanna do it more because it?s worth it. The same thing applies. So the small things, the ways to start this out so that you don?t jump out of a plane, or get on the next bandwagon, those are not super meaningful, but they work the muscle, right? 

You start into it. And the more you do it, the more you realize that if you go and do the thing that you?re prone to enjoy already, is it really stretching you? Or is it just another tick on a belt? If you?re gonna go and do the things that make you feel genially uncomfortable, and actually stretch your capacity to feel an emotion that?s different than the one you always strive to get. Talk to people that are different than people that you always surround yourself with. Those are the things where you?re actually gonna get more new input, more new feed, right? If you just think about it like ingredients on a shelf, and you look at the experience that you think you wanna engage in, ask yourself the question, ?Am I really stocking the same ingredient, just in a bit of a different way?? Like, if I already dived with sharks, is jumping out of an airplane any different? It is, but is it? 

Or would it be much more challenging to take a drawing class where I?m going to sketch something uncomfortable. Nudes. That?s gonna really push me, actually really outside my comfort zone, because I?m not an artist and that makes me uncomfortable. And I don?t surround myself with these people, right?

Jaime:			Yeah, totally.

Kelsey:	So I ask myself that question, what is it I?m actually stocking on the mental shelf, here? 

Jaime:	Well, in regards to that though, how do we take that into business, especially? It makes a lot of logical sense on the personal side, but especially when we?re, as an entrepreneur, wearing so many hats in business. So, some of the stuff we have to do, and probably better that it?s in neutral because it?s a pain in the butt, or you don?t like it, or something like that. But how do we push outside of our comfort zone in the different hats that we?re wearing, right? How far do we push in each one? Because then it can turn chaotic, and that?s not necessarily good either.

Kelsey:	Yeah, so this is kind-of, I think, the grand balancing act of it is, I would often say start with your personal life first. That will show up in your business life. I think this idea of separating the two things is really, to me, quite archaic in that people think that I?m gonna show up at work different. No, how you show up in life is how you show up everywhere. I?m sorry, but it?s just a fact. 

Jaime:	Thank you for saying that.

Kelsey:	So if you ?

Jaime:	Thank you, thank you, thank you. Because you coach people, and you realize that everything that happens in their personal life affects their business. Everything in their business affects their personal life. And people are just sorta like, ?Oh no, it?s balance, and we can totally be fine.? It?s like, well, no. 

Kelsey:	No, they?re lying. Or they?re ? or, you know what, maybe they?re not lying, they have hard belief and they really wanna believe it?s possible. Look, I don?t know everything there is to know. I?ve done okay. I?m just a regular person like a lot of other people, but just because of my position in the world, and the work that I?ve done, my friends are a lot of the people who people read about. And people wanna be like. Or whatever the case may be, or want businesses like theirs. And the truth is, at three in the morning, when we?re sitting around the campfire drinking wine, people?s marriages are falling apart. People?s minivans are dirty. People?s Teslas are dirty. 

You know, not everybody is in private jets. Not everybody ? you know, everyone has the same baseline experience, and like I said at the beginning of the show, success will only amplify the things that are your weaknesses. And so, whether that?s in business, like you don?t pay attention to your numbers, go make a bunch of money. Guess how fast you?re gonna loose it? Right?

Jaime:	Yep. [Giggles]

Kelsey:	You don?t pay attention to your staff, hire 300 people and see what your churn rate is, and see what your culture looks like. So this idea of future proofing can show up that way as well. So if I know that I haven?t really payed attention to how I engage with my staff, or people that I work for and with, consultants or in house. Maybe consider having a conversation with a person that?s different than the way you always did. Instead of having a traditional meeting, how about a walk and talk? Instead of just talking about business, how about invite them and sit for coffee? Like, this is not rocket science. But this is actually ? it is, in a way, because we like to default to what we knew worked. 

But when you grow, it doesn?t keep working. So what worked in grade seven does not work in grade 11, does not work in Uni, does not work ? right? So the same with our business and our own personal growth. What worked for me when I was 25 and starting out, and I was $130,000.00 in debt when I started my business. Does not work for me at 42 when the numbers are a little bit different. And so, I think for any listener when you?re asking the question, specifically how do we apply this to our business, it?s just the same. Look at the ways that you?re weak, or the things that you ignore, the things you don?t like, or whatever it is. And I?m not saying you have to be an expert in everything, that?s why I have accountants. But understand where you have an opportunity to engage in something just a little bit differently. Ask a different question. Set up a meeting differently. And I think you?ll start to not only highlight where you have growth opportunities, but you?ll start to listen differently, you know? You?ll start to see the whole organization differently. And let?s be honest. So, let?s take an example of something everyone knows, like an iPhone, or whatever. Smartphone. Steve Jobs did not invent the smartphone. 

Steve Jobs took a bunch of stuff that was already lying around, and smashed it together. There was already a phone. There was already satellites. There was computers. There was this, there was that. He went outside of the norm and looked at a problem in a different way. So every ? and I spent a number of years researching this, so ? of you look at every modern material advancement, whether it?s how Albert Einstein came up with the theory of relativity, Steve Jobs did the iPhone, the guy who founded Red Bull. 

All of those people went and experienced something in their life that gave them time and space to look back at their business and that thing that they?ve mastered, and apply their unique experience and subset to it. And it only happened when they stepped outside of their norm. It?s like, how are you gonna solve the same solutions with the same problems, same, same, same. And I think people want ? and again, this is not like politically correct thing to say and people will not like me for this. But I think everyone wants the equation. They want to be told this is the way to do it. Here?s the five step process. Here?s the whatever. And there?s lots of that that?ll get you pretty far. 

But if you want to be exceptional, you have to be an exception to the rule. And if everyone?s following the rule, then you?ll get what everyone gets, which is decent, potentially mediocre outcomes. If you really want to be successful, that?s a different thing entirely. And a very unique thing. And I would say to anyone who?s listening, who?s trying to be successful, start with getting real clear on what you define success as. And don?t just make it about money, because  you?ll get the money. Look, if you work hard enough, you?ll get there, it?s absolutely gonna happen for you. But you have to know what that actually looks like for you. What it feels like, and what you wanna do with that. And one of the ways to eliminate, or abbreviate that success hangover, because everyone has it. If you arrive at the place you thought you wanted. Look, if you finished in an undergrad ? if right now you?re listening to this show, you?re driving your car, you?re folding laundry, whatever you?re doing, you finish an undergrad, I will bet $100.00 that you walked across the stage, you got your piece of paper, and you were like, ?Uh. Okay. So now what?? You know?

Jaime:	Yeah, that?s a debt to pay off, woo-hoo. Okay, now what? Yeah. [Giggles] 

Kelsey:	You know, or you got the promotion at work. Same thing, you went home, you had a glass of wine, you were stoked, and the next day you were like, ?Okay. So, now I have that job.? So, the idea ? what I?m arriving at is ? or driving at is this idea of ? it isn?t until you understand really clearly who you are, what success is for you. And how you?re going to eliminate, or abbreviate that success hangover that you?re gonna get out of this cycle of stepping up and finding a plateau. Stepping up, finding a plateau. And those plateaus get longer and longer the more you follow the five step process. 

Jaime:	Right. It?s funny, and I have so many friends that have been on this show that do the same thing, where they?re like, ?Now what? Now what? Now what?? But what you?re saying, and I love, is that even the neural pathways in your brain, the more unknown we go, the more creative we can be, the more genius we ? the more fun we have in the actual moment. So that way you can actually enjoy the steps, or the ? it might be a slide up that you?re crawling up, you know what I mean? It might not be fun the entire way, but the fact that we can ride that unknown wave makes a huge difference, right? 

Kelsey:	And I think it?s important too, like back to how you were talking about applying it to our life and our business in a really strategic way as opposed to random and just seeking good times. And this is going to sound like a plug for my book, which it is not. It is a plug for people to do the work, because you can get this out ? I?m gonna tell you about an exercise you can get on my website, just for free. You don?t have to buy the book, because I think it?s that important. And in all honesty, selling books is never gonna make me as much money as I do building highways. So to me, the work in the book is just about helping people like me get off the sidelines and do more great work. 

Because it?s Hell when you have success, arrive at that place, and it doesn?t solve the problem. And so, anyway, the point of it being, there?s a matrix I built. It?s a quadrant, and you can get it, I think it?s exercise No. 1, in fact, I know that it is. If you go to successhangover.com, you can get that exercise, and the reason that it matters is it?s going to highlight very clearly for you which areas of your life you?re living in neutral. You?re living in ?

Jaime:			Oh good, that?s what I wanted to know. Okay.

Kelsey:	Well, this is it. That?s what everybody wants, right? Is to go where am I, and where am I ? look, here. If I say to you, imagine your default future. That means nothing changes.

Jaime:			Great. No, I like my life, so that?s good. But yeah. [Giggles]

Kelsey:	Okay, so now you?re 45, default future. Nothing has changed. And now you?re 65 ?

Jaime:	I do this to other people, I don?t like it when you?re doing it to me. This sucks. [Giggles]

Kelsey:	But so, it?s cool. But this is the point about being present, and loving our life right now, is such a gift. But not being strategic about how are we acting today, so that my 45 and 65 and 85 year old self is like, ?Thank you! This is bad-ass.? So this quadrant will help you really clearly go right. Right here, I?m doing all the same stuff I?ve always done. This is totally disruption zone. I?m reading The Economist, I?m watching ? yeah. I?m consuming all the same stuff. I?m talking to all the same people, which I love these people, but geez. If I just keep doing that, you know, over here. And so, I would encourage anybody who?s even curious. It?s uncomfortable. 

Because none of us like looking at dirty laundry of our life, but it?s so fruitful in that you can just highlight something really quick and go yeah, small thing, no big deal. Instead of consuming all the same media, guess what? I?m gonna try something new. I?m gonna read a different mag on my next flight, instead of The Economist, I?m gonna buy Rolling Stone. And I?m just gonna expose myself to a different subset of people who are thinking different things and experiencing different things. Maybe I?m into it, maybe I?m not, but maybe there will be something small in there that I go oh, that?s a bit of the cultural norm that I?ve been missing. Do you know what? That product I?m offering, now I see. 

It?s aimed at this subset, and those people are getting information this way that I wasn?t aware of, and this part of their culture ? right? So, it can give you a little window into something you never knew that you needed to know. That?s usually when the biggest ah-has happen, right? 

Jaime:	Definitely. Well, and it?s funny, because I?m thinking a lot of the people that are listening are probably like yeah, but that?s wasting time, because I have all these goals, and I ? what if I pick the wrong thing, and all this stuff right? But the way that you?re approaching it is that it?s all just little testing. It doesn?t have to be some crazy nutzo, going this direction. It?s very small, incremental things that will just shift the way that you think. 

Kelsey:	Totally. And here?s guess what? Look, if you?re good, you?re good. You don?t need to read The Economist again. You don?t need to read another magazine about leadership. You don?t need to do another ? everybody wants to get the incremental, 1/18 of a percent better. I?m great at connecting with people. I love it. I?m really good at it. I could go to workshops on that all day long. But the truth of the matter is, I?m in the probably the top 10% of people on Earth at connecting with people. How much better do I have to be at that? Wouldn?t it be more interesting and more valuable for me to connect with people in a way that I can speak about something totally different? 

Where I meet some random guy who sits beside me on a plane, and he says uh, blah blah blah about some boring thing, like woodworking, and I?m actually capable of talking to him about that. Because I?ve expanded my interest set and one time I read something about some boring woodworking thing ? do you know what I?m getting at, though? 

Jaime:	Totally, yeah. 

Kelsey:	You know when you go to a dinner party, and someone comes in, and they?re like oh, uh, I just went ? and you?re like, what did you do last weekend, and they say, oh, you know what? I did a puppeteering workshop. And you?re like, what the Hell, what? That?s weird. That person?s fascinating now. That person is more fascinating than every other person who read a book about leadership. 

Jaime:	What?s so funny is I?ve taken a puppeteering ? I?ve drawn nudes, all the things that you say, I?m the wacko, and I have a sword, I?m the wacko one. 
Kelsey:	I love it.

Jaime:	But you?re right, it helps with the connecting of people and just the neural pathway side, and because one of the things that I found a long time ago with me is that I kept moving because I wanted change so bad. So I kept moving to different states because I liked the energy of moving. And then I got into business, and I started doing all these things, random things in business because that gave me the difference. And now I have to do all these weirdo puppeteer ? it was actually really fun. But all these weirdo things in order to keep my brain so it doesn?t feel like it?s stagnant. Because I do, I feel, if it?s not moving, doing something crazy or nutzo, it?s not good. 

And then I get into more of a depression ? not depression, but I get in a sad state in business because I don?t have the energy wherever else I go, so ? I?m a testament to everything that you?re saying. 

Kelsey:	But this is exactly it, and here?s a magic of it. And this is maybe also gonna offend some people. Not everyone is like us. There are people who don?t need as much feed for their minds. Some people?s minds are high horsepower. They just are. They operate faster, they need more input, they?re driven, their brains are just like, ?Feed me.? We were born with brains that are ferocious consumers. Some people?s brains are happy to have mashed potatoes and pork chops every day. Our brains aren?t like that. But we treat them like that. We think that we?re gonna feed them enough of a few different things, variety, yeah, here?s a bit of this and that. Okay, now you?re fine. No.

 No, our brains won?t do that. And so it?s no wonder to your point that we get to these places, and we get so bored and dried up, and then we wonder why our business is stalling, and we feel stuck, and we?re depressed, or we just don?t have it. I don?t feel alive. I?m bored. I?m not in the flow. I can?t feel it. I?m in a funk. I?m stuck. All that. 

Jaime:			Definitely.

Kelsey:	More often than not, it?s because we followed what society said what we should do. Which is check a bunch of boxes, and then stay still because we got all the stuff we said we wanted. We?re like going on the Easter egg hunt, we got all the eggs, and they?re like now your basket is full. No. We want to dump the basket because there?s more ? 
Jaime:			Right.

Kelsey:	What ? the fun is in pursuit. The discomfort of pursuit is our jam. And everyone?s out there talking about arriving. Like I said before, this crushing the last one percent, and I believe that for people like us, that is the worst advice a person can give. The best advise a person could give is guess what, you?re always gonna want to ferociously feed on new and interesting things, and that?s what makes you exceptional. Please just do that. You will make more money, you will have a richer life, you will have better relationships, people will want to be around you a thousand times more, which just generates more opportunity. It?s like a circular thing. It just ? it does everything you want it to do, but because people think it?s not normal, or we should just simmer down and be thankful because we got all the things. That is a direct pathway to the worst hangover I can ever imagine. 

Jaime:	I love that you?re website is successhangover.com, also, by the way. I had no idea that that was a piece of it. Because the reminder of discomfort or pursuit, and I know everybody says enjoy the journey, but I love the way that you talk about that. Because it?s ? enjoying the journey is one thing, but being okay, or reveling in the discomfort of pursuit is totally different, and that?s what I think that we don?t focus on enough. We actually like this. I had to explain to my friend, no, I like being in this mode. Even though it looks crappy on your side, I like not knowing what I?m doing, or being really uncomfortable, unfortunately or fortunately I guess is the point, right? 

Kelsey:	Well, totally. And I think that that?s kind-of the piece about it is there is this ? unfortunately being an entrepreneur became really sexy. So a lot of people who aren?t meant to be here at our party showed up. Because it was the biggest ticket in town. And again, people might not like this, but if you don?t actually perspire and salivate and get all frothy about the win when you?ve been challenged, and you succeed, and you do that, and you?re like oh my God. But immediately, you?re not like okay, done, whew. Okay, we?re safe. If immediately you?re like now we?re here, what?s around? That?s an entrepreneur. If you?re like whew, now we?re safe, that?s not. 

And it?s not about risk, being a crazy risky person. It?s about curiosity. It?s just different for people like us, and it?s not better. You know, God help us. I know there are a lot of us who are like I wish I could just get a job. Wouldn?t that be rad? I?d just like a job. 
Jaime:	[Giggles]  Man, if I can actually be happy for more than one day at that, that?d be so cool.  Yeah. Well, and that?s ? this is why I love this conversation. I know that we could have a million more about connecting with people, and I?d love to hear about the relationship side of entrepreneurship too, because I get asked that question all the time, too. And I know we don?t have enough time. So I?ll have to have you back on the show. So I?m gonna ask the last question that I always ask, and of course everybody should buy your book. I?ll be the one to push it. Okay. So, besides that, it?s a book. Everybody should get a book. It?s a book. If it?s gonna help you with the exercise, I was like, I need that. So, go get the book. But what?s ?

Kelsey:	Well, there?s nine others in there as well. And I will say it?s been out for 30 days. And it?s a best seller in Canada, across six categories, the states, Australia, and we?re nearly there in the UK, which is berserker because that wasn?t ? my plan ? I was like, I just want this book ? I know, I?ve heard people say this before and I was like, that?s BS. You?re lying. But I just want it to get in the hands of the people who need it because I understand it. And that is why it exists in the world. And so to actually have people buy the book, and send the emails, and ? it?s just like I?m reading my story a thousand times a day now. When people are like oh my God. I thought ? I never told anyone I felt that way because I thought it was crazy ?

Jaime:	Your crazy matches my crazy.

Kelsey:	? I thought people would think I was ungrateful. You know? So honestly, to anybody who is listening to this show, like not even pumping the book, like I said, totally free exercises, and if you try out the book, I think you?ll like it. There is some swearing in it, and there is a bit of nude drawing. And ? but there?s a ? 

Jaime:	[Giggles] So you have done that. Sweet. 

Kelsey:	There?s a bit of randomness, but yeah. I think, if nothing else, not to pump the book, it?s just good work for the people who need it. 

Jaime:	Yeah. So on that note, go get the book, and what?s one action besides getting the book that everybody ? the listeners should take this week to help them move them forward towards their goal of a million?

Kelsey:	Oh yeah, this is super easy. I?m gonna cheat and give them to you. The first one, because I know a lot of people don?t address it is know your numbers. Please. Actually do. If they?re bad, they?re bad. It?s like, I had cancer. If you have cancer, you have it. Whether or not the doctor tells you. If your business isn?t doing what it?s supposed to, it?s just not doing it. So the first thing is I?d say, if you wanna make a million bucks, get jiggy with your numbers. Get naughty with those things. Understand them, and love them. You know? A lot of people talk about top line. It?s a myth. Don?t believe those people. Please, please look at your bottom line. I really ? I know a lot of people who make multiple millions of dollars and keep zero dollars. 

It gets crazy. So, please numbers. And then the second thing I would say is break a rule. We all operate in some set of rules we?ve set for ourselves. The way we are, who we believe we are, what we believe we do. Don?t break the law, but break a rule. I would say if you can break one of your rules today, it can be a simple one, as the way that you go, what you order, how you answer the phone, I really do not care. But challenge the paradigms that you believe you set for yourself, because I?ll bet that there are, at minimum, 15 decisions you?re not making in a day where you actually have choice, and you?ve just defaulted into something because it got set, and it used to work. 

Jaime:	Yep, the seven dinners that we always make every single time, and that?s the thing. Yep. The way we go.

Kelsey:	You know, the person that you call, the email that you send, the way you sign off your email. Like, it?s just ?

Jaime:	Ooo, that?s a good point. Man. 

Kelsey:	Try to be different, and just test your rule that you believe that you have to operate within.

Jaime:	Awesome. Make sure if anyone?s driving or anything like that, write that down. Not while you?re driving. That?s the rule we don?t wanna break. Eyes on the road, people. Thank you so much. Tell us where we can get the book and where we can find out more about you online. 

Kelsey:	Yeah, so like all good books, you can find it on Amazon. In every given country around the world, apparently. And you can find me at Kelsey Ramsden, R-A-M-S-D-E-N, or successhangover.com. 

Jaime:	Thank you so much. This interview did not go where I thought it was gonna go at all, and I love it. So, thank you. You made my experience different also, which I really, really appreciate. I hope you have an awesome, amazing, fantastic day. 

Kelsey:	I will, you too. Thanks for having me.

Tags: Business Owner, business work life balance, entrepreneur podcast, eventual millionaire, getting out of comfort zone, jaime masters, Kelsey Leigh, knowing your limitations, millionaire entrepreneurs, podcast, start-ups / startups, startup entrepreneur, top entrepreneurs

Categories: All, Best Life, Business, Entrepreneurship, Family/Parenting, Featured Millionaire Interview, Lifestyle, Millionaire Interviews, Planning, Work Life balance

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