Test Your Business Idea Without Wasting Time & Money With Pat Flynn

Online Entrepreneur, Author and Host – Pat Flynn

How to validate your biz idea even if you don’t have an audience. Why it’s not enough to do just product market validation. How to prevent being at the top of the wrong ladder. The simple Market Map exercise you should do before entering any niche. Why entering a market later can be a huge advantage.

Resources Mentioned in the Podcast:

• Will It Fly?

Check out SmartPassiveIncome.comfor more info!

Thanks so much for listening!

Transcript: Download

Jaime Tardy: 	Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I'm Jaime Tardy and I am so ridiculously excited for this interview today exactly just like this because the infamous Pat Flynn is on my show.  

Pat Flynn:	What's up?

Jaime Tardy: 	So Pat of course as everybody who listens to my show probably knows who you are because you're so much bigger than me and amazing and awesome. 

Pat Flynn:	What are you doing? 

Jaime Tardy: 	I'm like you're amazing. 

Pat Flynn:	I'm not, no. 

Jaime Tardy: 	So he runs smartpassiveincome.com. He's also coming out with an amazing book called Will it Fly. You can check it at willitflybook.com. Thank you so much for coming on today. 

Pat Flynn:	I'm so excited to finally be on your show because you finally invited me on. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Okay. His website said I'm not a millionaire yet forever and I'm like oh? And then it disappeared it and I didn't realize it disappeared for a really long time and I was like oh wait; maybe I could actually ask you and you said yes. So tell me about this when you actually "became a millionaire", I wanted you to have a coming out on my show that you were a millionaire. I know. So tell us sort of about that journey of like crossing that mark. 

Pat Flynn:	Yeah. It's funny people know that and people didn't notice that I did and then didn't have that mark on my site because I mentioned it on the side bar of my page that no, I'm not a familiar, but I am living off of passive income I've generated online through automated businesses and that was the truth for the longest time because - and I decided to put that on there because I think that helped me stand out in the space that I'm in, internet marketing, online business, entrepreneurship. 

A lot of people are like I make millions and that was my way of saying I don't make millions, but I'm still happy and excited about what I've been able to create. Here's what I've done, but eventually over time I crossed the million dollar mark and then I had to take it off. So super stoked to take that off and it's weird how taking a badge like that off is so opening and it's like a de-badging honor - I don't know. 

Jaime Tardy: 	De-badging. We've coined a new term. 

Pat Flynn:	Yes, but yeah, I'm so excited to be here amongst all the amazing other guests that you've had just thank you. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Well, you did it. So good job - I mean that's the thing and I think it's so interesting and I remember having this conversation with you before because part of your USP was I'm just a regular guy. I'm not a millionaire yet and then going from that to now I am and yet still people are still trusting. I mean not that they don't love you anyway, but you're now an internet millionaire.  

Pat Flynn:	Right. I mean I did struggle with that internally and I worried so much about becoming successful because I didn't want to have that separation with the audience who was following what I was doing, but I've been able to just realize that I just have to continue to be who I am. I don't have to change because I reached a seven figure mark. I mean that doesn't really matter. What matters is am I still who I am. Am I still providing value? Am I still happy? And yeah, totally. I mean nothing magical happens at - between $999,999 or a million dollars. It's just a number, right? So I've been the same the whole time. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Okay, but everybody says that. So let me dive a little bit deeper because that's the thing people are like oh, the 99, that's fine, but what about being 50,000 to 1 million. There's a huge gap number one to go from that. So what do you think the difference is in yourself when you go from one to the other?

Pat Flynn:	Well I think obviously it's all in the mindset and I think a lot of it has to do with just confidence. Like now that I've reach that million dollar mark, I feel like the next million is not going to be that far off which is really exciting because 50,000 to a million is crazy, but 2,000,000 maybe three or 4 million doesn't seem that far off anymore. It's like yes I can do it and it - yeah, in a way that label I guess if you want to call it does matter because it does give me confidence and I get invited on cool shows like this which gives me even more confidence and stuff, but whatever the dollar mark is I think no matter what my big lesson is always be yourself and know your strengths and that's how you can win moving forward.

Jaime Tardy: 	Well, that's so awesome and it's so awesome to see you because we've been friends for over five years and it's so cool - 

Pat Flynn:	Too long.

Jaime Tardy: 	We're old now. Great. We were in our 20s when we met each other and now we're in our 30s.

Pat Flynn:	Yeah, but why do you put it like that. That's so bad. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Yeah, never mind. Stop the show. 

Pat Flynn:	But I know we're still young.

Jaime Tardy: 	We're done. we're "young".

Pat Flynn:	Everybody has a number of years left.

Jaime Tardy: 	Well but so the thing is now is like everybody saw your income reports. So they knew that you are doing better and you are doing better and you are doing better. Did anybody ever go all my gosh I can't believe he is making that much or were you ever like Internet - not millionaire, but you know what I mean, but the Internet guy making a lot of money because you don't seem - the reason why ask that is because everybody loves you as a person. There like is so down to earth. He's so amazing, but you're showing how much freaking money you're making online which is something that doesn't sort of connection very well.

Pat Flynn:	Right and I think it's because I've shared that whole during the from the beginning and I have proof behind that. I have not only the numbers in each of those lessons, but the - or in each of those income reports, but the lessons that go along with them like the actual stuff that made those numbers have been or made those numbers go down and even before I started I was really conscious about the fact that I was getting into the space of Internet marketing and I saw what was out there and I needed something to differentiate myself and the big differentiator actually there was a few was just being completely open and honest, sharing my failures to because nobody in this space had ever shared their failures. 

It was always this happy the unicorns and rainbows worlds and I was like no, that's not how it is. So I'm going to share it like it is and then number three was just the fact that I had a case study in a business outside of this space to prove these concepts that I was learning and I was using that as my kind of crash test dummy landing pad. I had this existing business then allowed me to - and qualified me to you could say to share all this stuff because we know a lot of people who get into this same space as us and they don't have that. They're just rehashing information from other people which is - I know where they're coming from, and why they're doing what they're doing and on a level they do want to help, but on another level it's like are you qualified to do that.

Jaime Tardy: 	Exactly. For sure. It's like prove it and then I'll listen to you and I think we need a lot more of that online. I think what's so interesting though is that you could actually go back five years or however long your site has been and see you grow as a person. You know what I mean? I've seen you grow over five years and I'd say just incompetence wise; dress as far as how sharp he looks. He is very impressive. You've you just come a long way in general. Would you think those pivotal moments were as you've been coming up?

Pat Flynn:	Well, going to the mall every once in a while to buy clothes and things like that was really helpful. No, I love that you mention these moments because that's really - I can find different pivotal moments in my career I guess you could say and it all starts from the beginning. I mean ever since I got laid off and became somebody that architecture actually wasn't what I was supposed to be doing even though that's where I thought - what I went to school for. So getting laid off was a huge moment obviously. 

It opened up my eyes to this whole world of online business and automation and that's when I discovered Tim Ferris and Internet business mastery and all those sorts of things and then later we connected. Other moments were my first dollar that I made online to the first time I sold a product to the first thousand dollars to the first time I had somebody reach out to me and send me a note that said you changed my life. Thank you. All those moments along the way are very, very important and ingrained in me and who I am and keep me moving forward. 

I think it's a big lesson is that those things might seem small, like one dollar here, your first products, I think you know from somebody, but those are all just starting points and shows that you can do those things and why can't you do more of that whether it's more money or more service to others and things like that. So even growing after that, there's a lot of things for example learning the fact that I can't do it all myself. That was a big moments and that's when I saw a lot of income come in. You know it's weird because it's kind of counterintuitive because I needed to spend some money which on things that I knew I could do myself. 

You know that I have gone through the struggle for the longest time I was doing everything by myself and I don't know if it was because I'm a dude and guys don't want to ask for direction and maybe that's a part with it, but also there's some pride in just figuring some things out. 

I was always the guy who would tinker with things, break apart things and figure out how to put them back together and I loved to do that, but online when you're an entrepreneur and you are running your own business, you can't be doing that and there are other people who can do those things that are even faster than you and it took me a long time to really realize the power of hiring other help and it started just with E Lance which is now upwork.com where I hired somebody to do a voiceover to read an audio book that I actually tried to do so. 

This is back in 2009 was a complete failure when I did it myself, but I hired somebody. I paid them $1400 to read them to read it off for me and she was amazing and they made up the cost for that in two days, in one or two days and I was like mind blown. Well, this actually works. So then I got involved with VAs, virtual assistants overseas and that was fantastic. That was doing a lot of side businesses and a lot of niche sites and I still have a few those up right now, but that's what I use those four and not stopped and I let them go, but then I realized wow, I need to build a team. 

I actually went to my Michael Hyatt's event platform conference and I saw him in the audience conference sitting at the table with a notepad taking notes from all the speakers and I was like whose event is this? Isn't this your event? So I spoke to him afterwards and I was like Michael it was so cool to see you in the audience. I've never seen a conference director do that. So it spoke highly of Michael and who he is and the fact that he's always trying to improve which I've learned and gotten inspiration from him on that level, but additionally I was like how is this conference put together? 

Who's running the show and he's like my team. My team does everything and I was like holy moly. Not only is he providing service to me as an attendee, but she's even learning on his own and he is not doing any work to put all of this together. His team is doing the work and so that really inspired me to focus on hiring team a little bit more local, not necessarily in San Diego which is where I'm from, but just local, somebody in the same time zone and more importantly I found that it these with a local versus VA overseas, the people that I work with now they do what I tell them to do, but then they do it in the best way. 

They go above and beyond that. They figure out ways to do it even better and I described to do those things. The other VA is from the Philippines. There amazing. They did all of their work when they were supposed to, on time, quality of work, but that's it. There was no what if you did this instead because that's disrespectful for them to do in that culture. Here it's like oh man, let's figure out what we can do better and I love working with the team who supports my values, my values and wants to help my audience just as much as I do.

Jaime Tardy: 	See I adore that in a want to go really deep into why you switch to why you switched. Before we get into that, how the heck did you let go, I remember you still editing your own podcast forever, right?

Pat Flynn:	Yeah.

Jaime Tardy: 	So I know I remember that piece of you letting go and I wanted to just sort of fell people - because there are so many people listening right now that are like I know but I'm really good and entrepreneurs are kind of control freaks.

Pat Flynn:	We are. Yeah, I mean [inaudible] [13:27] podcast I had edited it ends in the graphics in the show notes for I think the first hundred and 20 episodes and it was all me and it was done the way I wanted and our good friend Chris Ducker who owns Virtual Staff Finder and as a company in the Philippines, one of my best friends, for two years he was like Pat, dude you got to outsource that. Why are you doing that? And like it's my baby. It's like my podcast. I needed that my way and I don't think that anybody else can do it the way I want it to. 

It has to be done very specific way and it was like that forever and then I finally had to outsource my second podcast in order to make it happen. So Act Pact came out, had this idea to have voicemail questions come in and answer these voicemail questions for my audience five days a week and the only way I would be able to pull this off was to hire somebody to help produce that for me, to do the editing to a point where I am only recording the answers to those episodes. I'm not even listening to the questions. 

I'm getting a transcript of what those questions are. I'm getting hand - I get to hand select the ones I want to answer and I just say okay question I'm answering this question here and here's my answer and then maybe the ad spot if there's a sponsor and that's all I do. So when I realized that in terms of our ROI and stuff like that, I was spending I would say three hours a month to create a full month's were of Act Pact episodes. That's 25 episodes because they run between eight and 10 minutes. Three hours a month and when you consider that every episode gets between $300 and $500 in sponsorships, it's like $1,000 or more an hour. I don't know. Caleb you can do the math or whatever, but -

Jaime Tardy: 	Are people even do his math for him. How awesome is that?

Pat Flynn:	Yeah, right? I do my math for me. Brush my teeth. Do all this other stuff. We're not going to go as deep as I know I can go without, but it was amazing. I was like oh my gosh. I'm making more money which was great, but more than that I am giving my audience something that is completely useful. I'm serving them much better now because I hired somebody else and I was like wow, I need to do this with my podcast, to really. Two and I'm stupid for not doing it earlier and you remember this whole progression of when I finally - because we're going to mass my group together and when I finally did it, it opened up about five hours a week for me and now -

Jaime Tardy: 	That's insane.

Pat Flynn:	No, it's huge, right' And I thought I wasn't wasting that time because I was working, but we often do were and feel busy when we don't really know where else we could be putting our time or who else me to be giving those tasks to and now they're done much better, faster and now with the podcast for example on Wednesday, I open up WordPress, the whole post is there. The file is linked up already, the show notes are done, all the links are created and I just have to read it over, change anything that needs to be changed and I just hit publish and it's literally five minutes and it is the most beautiful thing in the world.

Jaime Tardy: 	Okay. So I think this is extremely important because looking at what you did and learning that lesson, you - and it took you a little bit longer than it could have. Once you learn the lesson you go crazy and I think that that's why people listen to your stuff anyway because you went from no team - well, I mean like Philippines and VAs here and there to an amazing team that you have now that you're like oh by the way I have been do this. I'm like really you went from 0 to 100 ridiculously quick. So how did you do that?

Pat Flynn:	Got connected with the right people. I asked for a lot of help. Got a lot of great advice from people like yourself, the band members and other people I know who have big teams. So Michael Hyatt again was a big inspiration. They reached out to him and I was like can you help me out and he actually didn't have time to help me out, but he redirected me to some posts and podcast episodes of his which was great and it's funny because I did the same thing. I don't have time to answer your question, but here are a couple episodes and they were completely useful and again, talking to a lot of people and just starting small. 

I think starting small and just the velocity was there after I figured out the process. So I actually hired Matt first before anybody was originally an editor for my book, Let Go,   in the spirit started. It started with somebody way to redeem new, who I knew loved what I did and wanted to add value to what I was doing and so I hired Matt to become essentially the project manager or producer you can call him and now he's just my touch points between my other team members and myself. 

So I only go through Matt typically which is awesome and yes, it costs a lot of money, but it's absolutely worth every single need to work with. So now when I get a new idea for example this book that's coming out, and like Matt, I want to write this book and so let's talk about it. He comes up with a plan. We come up with a plan together. We work it through then he takes care of the people, everything else that needs to happen in order for all that stuff and he comes back to me with okay, since this is what you're proposing we need these things to happen by this time. 

This is where your responsibility is. So you need to write the book and then if you have it done by this time, we can have all these other things in place. If you want to shift the data around just the spreadsheet around. He is like super analytical and stuff which I love, but it's so cool because then in the process the kind of overarching looking at the whole thing. Then I can focus on the content of that book which is where I need to focus and then the only thing I can do that is only me and so it's a beautiful thing. We've done that in several different instances in just more recently with this book.

Jaime Tardy: 	That's what's insane. So you are really focusing on what you are really good at. What a surprise' And people get told this all the time. Focus on your strengths. You can't do it all. Your life lesson learned. Good to know. Hire the right people. Also everybody knows that. Quote unquote everybody knows that, right? It's way harder to do.

Pat Flynn:	Well we all know we need to go to the gym, to, but we don't go to the gym all the time. 

Jaime Tardy: 	We're going to do impressions in the little bit.

Pat Flynn:	Yeah. That was my Will Smith. You know what I'm saying?

Jaime Tardy: 	That was Will Smith?

Pat Flynn:	Will Smith doing in person somebody else. I just watched Fresh Prince the other day. So I don't know. 

Jaime Tardy: 	This is whole areas. I love you so much so back on track. Focus.

Pat Flynn:	Yeah, focus on one thing at a time.

Jaime Tardy: 	This is a perfect segue because a lot of entrepreneurs are ADD. What a surprise, right? Were a little all over the place and having somebody that could manage of and that's why Matt seems so perfect for you. He can actually manage he can go hey hat, just do this and you're like okay even though you are the boss.

Pat Flynn:	Yeah and she knows me and my strengths and what I'm good at and he knows that there are certain other things that need other people then we'll talk about it. He doesn't just hire people randomly. We talk about it. He's like in order to make this work we need to for example - a good example and you know this is I recently hired a content manager which is huge. I was struggling a little bit. I went to Matt. 

Unlike Matt I need some help because I'm getting behind on my blog post schedule. I just want somebody to help take care of guests on the show and line up what we're going to do and when and were coming up with these great projects, the book, courses and what in 2016. I need somebody to help manage the whole thing because I can't wrap my head around it's and he's like okay, well, let's talk it through. What are your goals? What do you want to do? 

Which is a great question to ask, like really what do you want out of this and he took that information and needs like okay, I got a solution for you. I know this woman. Her name is Jenna. I think we should hire her to help you manage your content and this is what her role would be. These are the things that you would do and this is what it would take away from you. How does that sound? Here's what she costs. Yes or no. It's so good. I'm like oh, I'm so happy about that and it's so weird because when I think back to when I was - my early entrepreneur years, I'm like man, I would have been so freaked out to a, spend all that money. 

I would not want to handle things. I wanted to make all the decisions myself, but you do and you learn and that's what entrepreneurial ship is all about and you won't know until you actually put in time effort and a sweat equity and learn from your mistakes and that's what I've been doing hopefully with smart passive income. I am able to share all those things before other people have to go through the same struggles. 

 Jaime Tardy: 	And I think that's what's so important. It is an evolution. Entrepreneurship is not like a you have an idea and then you're a millionaire. It's not like that in any way, shape or form and the money comes and you hire and you do a little - you know what I mean? It's an ever evolving process. Since we're in a mass in my group, every single week we do wins, right? But they're usually like - there's no win. I mean sometimes we're like this amazing thing happened. 

Pat Flynn:	You're right and then sometimes we default to oh yeah, everybody in the family was healthy this week which was a win because they're this virus going around. It turns away from business which is okay. It's good to have personal wins, too, and yet, it's like okay, where are the big wins. Maybe we should have a every three months talk about the biggest thing that has happened and then if it's not huge, then something's wrong. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Oh then we get to slap each other around, right? 

Pat Flynn:	Yeah, even though we don't hang out in person as much as we should. 

Jaime Tardy: 	I know. 

Pat Flynn:	Which is why this is such a big deal even though Todd and Roger aren't here and Josh. 

Jaime Tardy: 	I know. Next time. We should do like a whole master mind video next time actually. 

Pat Flynn:	Like a Skype five-way?

Jaime Tardy: 	No, I mean have our master mind group on my show or on your - almost everybody in my master mind group are millionaires which is helpful. 

Pat Flynn:	Like a roundtable type of thing. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Yeah or like a - we did one live master in my group. 

Pat Flynn:	That was really cool, yeah. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Everybody loved that because it's not rocket science people just so we know. It's funny because everybody was like oh, they must be saying really special things and we're like how you guys doing? All right, cool. 

Pat Flynn:	Oh, in the master mind groups?

Jaime Tardy: 	In the master mind groups. 

Pat Flynn:	Yeah, that's why I got a couple emails when - so what we did was we - I think you did this on your show, too. You open up the - one of our master mind calls and obviously we told the people in our master mind group that this was going to be shared publicly and we brought Joey on and we talked to him. Joey's amazing and we helped him through some struggles in his business and helped him reach the next levels and I got some emails that were like that's it? You just talk? 

It's not like that's not scary at all and I'm like no, it's just kind of we're friends which is important, but we also are just trying to just chip away at each other and dig deeper and that's what we do every single week and it's so important to have that and I'm so thankful that you reached out to me even though I said no the first time you asked me to be in the group. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Yeah, thanks for that, Pat. I don't take no for an answer people. 

Pat Flynn:	I was just testing you. I was like you know what? If she really wants me in the group, she'll come back to me after I say no if it was meant to be. 

Jaime Tardy: 	I had a mentor that said. He goes I make people ask three times. If they ask three times, I'll say yes. I was like, wow. Okay. Is that what you do, Pat?

Pat Flynn:	Is that what I should be doing. 

Jaime Tardy: 	He is almost a billionaire so maybe you should be doing that. That was what you were inadvertently doing already.

Pat Flynn:	I guess so. Yeah. So I need two more nos. So I should just quit this video now. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Never mind we're done. We're no longer friends. So I think one of the things that's really important there too is that you push yourself out of your comfort zone over and over and over again. You spoke this morning at this amazing event. By the way we're here at Ryan Rand who I've also interviewed a few times. He's a really good friend of ours and Pat I love how nervous you get before your - 

Pat Flynn:	I want to throw up before I speak. Seriously every time I'm in the back sweating and I'm struggling through the resistance that's in my head. It comes every time, but I've learned to just live with it. That's a part of process and then I'm like you know what? How would I feel any other way is I was just like completely comfortable and ready to speak? I think I'd be a little worried, the fact that I was so comfortable. So it's nice to be a little nervous even though I'm on the more extreme side, but yeah, I get super nervous, but the reason I speak is I love being on the stage. 

I love sharing information in that way. I love the craft of speaking itself, the timing and that sort of thing and it's made a dramatic impact on my business in terms of my authority. I've gotten into meet amazing people at these conferences so speaking allows me to then get referred to speak at other conferences and meet new people in that way which is really fun, but this reminds me of when I first started blogging. I was deathly afraid of what people would think of about my words on a page. 

When I started a podcast which I actually I was going to start a podcast in 2008 and then I didn't start until 2010 because I was so scared when I got behind video for YouTube. Just every time I've felt this resistance this- as Steven Pressfield says he actually says this self-doubt, this fear is actually a sign that whatever it is that you're thinking of doing is actually worth pursuing because it means it means something to you. 

If you're not scared it maybe doesn't mean much to you. So if you're running your business and you're not scared for whatever reason, maybe you're not extending yourself out there and putting yourself in places where you can make the needle in your business and you have to step out of your comfort zone in order to make things work.  

Jaime Tardy: 		So what's your next scary thing that you're going to do? You're ridiculously good at it by the way. So every single time - I was like how'd it go? He goes killed it. I was like you kill it every time. You know that, right? Not that you don't your prepare your butt off. 

Pat Flynn:	Well, and then right before I'm like I'm going to die. 

Jaime Tardy: 	I know, exactly, but what's the next thing' What's something that you're scared of that you're working on right now?

Pat Flynn:	Well, right now it's the book. So willitflybook.com and you know because we've been talking about it in our master mind group. I mean this has been such a long journey for me and this book has just been a scary giant thing that is just freaking me out for several reasons. For one, it's a book. It's official. It's bigger than a blog post it seems and I have inspiration from and Chris Tucker and Jeff Rose and a bunch of other friends who we've connected with who have their books out already and I'm like I want my book to be out there and I want it to be great. 

I want it to be something that makes a difference in people's lives and I know a lot of people who are going to buy because I have this audience who just trust me and I'm so thankful for the audience and they fans that I've been able to generate over time and they're amazing, but I don't want to let them down. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Pressure. My gosh. 

Pat Flynn:	And I know I'm putting a lot of pressure on myself, but I like that it means that I'm going to make sure that it's great when it comes out and I just yesterday got some great comments from the editor that were very, very encouraging. So I'm very excited to share, but I'm still scared. I don't know what's going to happen. I've never come out with a book like this. I do have a book called let go, but it was more of a personal journey. This is like a non-fiction business, like put these things into practice, they will help you and man it's scary, but it's also very, very exciting. 

Jaime Tardy: 	See and I love and I don't know if you want me to share this or not, but I'm going to share it anyway.

Pat Flynn:	I don't know what you're going to say, but I know you're going to tell it anyway. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Right. Don't you love that? Now you're all scared. Perfect. I love being in person. So one of our master mind calls before when you were writing the book you were like this sucks. Writing sucks. I want to throw it all away. This sucks and it's part of the process, but how did you get to that and how do you get through that?

Pat Flynn: 	I had a coach. Somebody I worked with who held me accountable just like you do in your hustle group and it's so important to have that. I needed it. I needed somebody to tell me that something was okay or somebody to ask me questions to dig deeper to have me think through things in a way that I needed to that I couldn't do on my own and I also needed somebody to really hold me to that deadline that I wanted. So I have to give a big shout out to my coach Azul Teronis who is very helpful who is actually a student of mine. 

He went to me and - me and Chris Tucker's one day business break through events and then we got to become good friends and now he's coaching myself and a few other people through the writing process and absolutely crucial. So I'm very thankful for that and so again, you can't do it all on our own and sometimes it's not just about the technical stuff. It's about this stuff that goes on up there and at the highest level when you think of athletes and Olympians and things like that, they still get training on things. 

Golf pros still go get golf training, swing training just to really get through the mental barriers that come in at that level and as we all try to go, we're going to meet - as we all try to grow, we are going to be met with new challenges along the way and a lot of people have already through those challenges before. You can read books. You can listen to podcast episodes, but more than that you can get real advice from somebody who knows what they're talking about because it's so hard to know what to do when you're in it. 

Jaime Tardy: 	See, and Azul is awesome so if you want a running coach, he was actually a student of mine two years in hustlers which is hilarious, right? But I think what's so important like you're saying in general is it's like having a mom or dad it's okay, honey. This is how it is. 

Pat Flynn: 	Yeah. Go clean your room. 

Jaime Tardy: 	I mean coaches tell people what to do. I feel like that's my job all the time. Just go do this. You'll be fine. 

Pat Flynn: 	Yeah, well, you're right, like yeah, you're right. Go and then you're like really? Yeah, go. Okay and get that motivation just from permission, right? But in my case it wasn't just permission. It was like okay, Pat, you're struggling. It's obvious. This doesn't look like you. Let's find a process that works for you and actually the big thing that Azul taught me was to treat book, this big scary thing, break it up into little chunks which became the chapters and those chapters just really focus on them like they were blog posts and I was like wow, why didn't I think of that? 

But then I started to write in Scrivener which is the tool that everybody uses and I was like this is not working for me. It actually didn't work for me and he's like okay, well; let's break it down. How do you write your blog posts and I'm like Janna my content editor she sends me a Google docs link and he was like oh you write your blog posts on Google docs and I'm like yeah and he was like okay, we're going to set up all the book in a Google doc. We're going to separate out each chapter and all you'll see is that one chapter at a time and that's what made everything happen. 

Jaime Tardy: 	That's insane. That was just like a tactic that shifted your whole brain. 

Pat Flynn: 	Oh, a small little thing and worth every freaking penny. 

Jaime Tardy: 	And then it was fine?

Pat Flynn: 	And then it was fine and then I was on fire. 

Jaime Tardy: 	You were like going and I just did this many words, this many words, this many words. It's crazy. 

Pat Flynn: 	And it's so weird that that actually mattered, but it did and I think that speaks highly to what tools are you using? Are they the best for you? Because every tool is different. Everybody was using Scrivener so I was like okay, I'm going to use Scrivener, too. It doesn't work for me. Each of us are different and also the environment that you work in too is very important. That bunker you create as Jay Popson talks about and the one thing. So yeah, focus on how you do things and if you're doing them in the most efficient way for you. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Great. Now tell us about the work. It's called Will It Fly. It took piloting -

Pat Flynn: 	No, it's not.

Jaime Tardy: 	I want to be a pilot. I thought you were gonna teach me how to fly.

Pat Flynn: 	Now but there is some flight references to it. It's called Will It Fly: How to Test your Next Business Idea So You Don't Waste Your Time and Money. It's essentially a validation book and the validation is a big topic right now. It's not anything new, though. Tim Ferris talked about it in with the Four Hour Work Week. 

There was a chapter called testing the news where he micro tested I think it was a French sailor shirt business where he said okay, I'm going to set up a landing page, send people cold traffic through Google ad words, spend a little bit of money and if people click on the buy now button then all know that this is something I can actually do or not do and I think that idea of validating an idea.

And using these tests before you create the business was such a game changer for people and that little chapter is something that started this whole like wow you can do this sort of lean startup kind of thing, but then a lot of people don't get really deep with that and a lot of times people assume that you already have an audience if that happens. Well, if you're starting a business it's hard to validate if you don't have an audience. So there's a lots of tips and tricks in the book on how to get in front of audiences to validate ideas and that sort of thing and there's a lot of case studies. 

Noah Kagan talking about certain businesses and a lot of people that you probably never heard of before who have validated businesses in this way because now these tools are available for us to do this and with the Internet and the way people are in certain places, it's really not very difficult to do, but more than just the products to market validation, there's the yeah how do you know if that business idea, it fits for you? How does this business idea fit into your life plan? Does it complement your goals are your strengths? 

And it's interesting because a lot of people succeed in business yet they are unhappy. They are not happy fathers or mothers or successful parents for example and that sucks and it's like when you're an entrepreneur you can do whatever you want. You can control your life in any way possible and that's why people go into entrepreneurship. I need to do my own thing then they end up doing something because it's a low hanging fruits and it's just the money is there when they don't put their full thought into well, how does that actually play a role in where I want to go and people find out when it's too late that they're in a place that they climb of the wrong ladder essentially. 

They're at the top of the ladder but they're up on the wrong ladder. So my goal is through this book have people happen idea in their head which we all have of course. You read the book and have one of two things happen. You read it and you decide really quickly through these litmus test, these thought experiments in the book to help you through this process both with yourself or the market that you're getting into it wow, this idea is not going to work. 

You know that then much better now than then two, three, four years down the road when you spend all this time, money, effort building something only to see that maybe it wasn't the thing that I should've done. Either that or you read the book and you get through it, validate an idea, potentially even getting paid for that idea beforehand to have people truly say yes I want this. Not just say they want it, but show they want it which is really important and then you're completely motivated. 

You have this thing that gave you permission like all coaches give their students who have great ideas. So this book is going to become that guide, that coach for people I think moving forward it's a really fun piece of work and I think definitely my best writing and I'm excited to share it with the world. So thank you for having me to share that. I appreciate.

Jaime Tardy: 	Yeah. When he thought it worst writing and then he kept working it and working it. Now it's your best writing. How amazing is that?

Pat Flynn: 	It's insane. I'm very proud of it and again, I think that's why I'm so scared of how people will react to it because it's - I put a lot of heart and effort into it and it's here. It's coming. I'm excited. 

Jaime Tardy: 	So tell me this, though, too because when we're looking at validation and thank goodness we live in the time we do now. If you're starting a business right now, this is the best time ever because way back when, when I started or when a whole bunch of other of friends started, it wasn't the same landscape that we're in now with the tools. 

Pat Flynn: 	Yeah or like the 1800s. Imagine starting a business in a the 1800s. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Cows. Man. Not being able to go is for real or is this not? I'm just going anyway, Pat. 

Pat Flynn: 	No, keep going. 

Jaime Tardy: 	He's making faces. Okay. So when you look at that, though, you still - because I remember when I first was validating and testing and I teach people to do this now, too, and one of the biggest questions is this grey line of maybe I've sold three, but will I be able to find any more people to buy it or - you know what I mean? It's like this grey line of going eh. I interviewed a guy, Bob Casey, and he said that he went to - he was creating assembling bicycles for a Walmart. 

Pat Flynn: 	Fun. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Yay. He went to 60 Wal-Mart's before one person said yes and I was like what if you only went to 59? And goes I wou1d have kept going to 300 and I'm like you're crazy. No. Bobby's is amazing. 

Pat Flynn: 	Yeah, but I'm curious for Bobby's validating process even before that because before you go out and sell, you have to some market research and if you find a solution through your market research and there's a lot of cool exercises. Actually there's one called the market map. So before you get into any space, you want to create your market map so you can an overall perspective of what's going on in that space so you can find out where you're at. 

So it's the three Ps, that is the places where your target audience hangs out, the other people who are influencers in that space and then finally the products that they are buying right now and there's a lot of ways to show you how to do that in the book, but it's cool because when you get those three Ps, you get this amazing view of the space that you're getting into that the people even in that space don't even have. So even though you might not have a business yet and a lot of times when we try to start a business, we feel behind because there are other people in that space already. 

That's what stops a lot of people, like somebody already has my idea, but no, you can go in. That's your advantage coming in later is like you see what's out there and you can come in a position yourself that is unlike anything out there. You can go to Amazon. Look at the three star reviews on Amazon because are the truthful reviews that tell you the pros and the cons. Incorporate the pros. 

Get rid of the cons when you create your business and that's how you create the perfect solution for whatever it is that problem is you're creating and so if you have that solution that you know deep down is going to work for your target audience, then you have to keep going, but if were to just go out there with this product without actually doing the things that you need to do beforehand, how do you know where the book does a really good job of creating steps so that if something were to fail, you know that it happened at step three, you know? 

And then you could fix that thing there instead of just building a product, shouting from the rooftops, nobody buys and you're like what went wrong? It could be anything, but when you break it down into these steps then you know what went wrong and you can refocus and just focus on maybe it was the way I said it and then you can focus on that or all those types of things. So I like the fact that you bring this up because it?s important because validation is not just go out and see who buys it. It's all the things that happen before that, too. 

Jaime Tardy: 	This is so necessary for people. I know that was a score. 

Pat Flynn: 	Thank you. I hadn't practiced that. 

Jaime Tardy: 	That was amazing. So this is why I love you because it's not theoretical. This is extremely tactical of going oh wait, all we do is this and we can't do that in our own brain very easily at all which is why it's amazing that you took the time to write everything freaking down and researched the crap out of it because that's what you do in general. This isn't just you figuring it all out. You get so much advice from everybody else and fit it in and have case studies. You're the crash teat dummy. That's what you do. You test it all out. So who is the book best for anybody in this area?

Pat Flynn: 	So essentially two groups of people and I think that was an important moment for when I was writing a book because I had such a wide net in my audience. I have a lot of different kinds of people and I realized that when you create a product, you can't create a product for everything just like the products that you're creating; you have to serve a very specific group so I appreciate this question. So if you are just starting out. 

You don't have a business yet, but you want to make sure that this idea that you have or an idea that you're going to get is going to be worth moving forward with and absolutely or if you have a business and you feel stuck, like you might be stuck at the same income level or same audience level, same email subscribers and you're for that new thing that you need to do and you want to make sure that that is actually going to work out or not and if you have an audience already, that's great because kind of step - you skip over step one which is get in front of an audience.

And if you don't have audience, well there are ways to get in front of audiences that aren't even yours and I'll save those tips for the book, but yeah, so it's for those people. If you have a business and you're killing it already then great. You've graduated from the book already. Book two will come out next year or something. I don't know, but yeah, so that's who it's for. 

Jaime Tardy: 	I think that's amazing and I know we have to start wrapping up. Grant Cardone I think is speaking downstairs right now. I'm going to ask you a last question then I'm going to ask you all about how you find the book. Okay? So what's one action, one, listeners can take this week? Of course buy the book of them, but you're not going to say that to help them get to their goal of a million?

Pat Flynn: 	Survey your audience if you have an audience already which I know a lot of you do. Survey your audience because they're going to tell you what you need to do to better assert them. That's something I recently did in July as you know when I went to Australia. I had - right before I left for Australia put out a survey and I was very curious to see what the response was and I learned really quickly that I wasn't serving my best audience in the best way possible. 

So I've now been able to shift the focus and really focus on the experience of people who come across my site and my brand and it is definitely a game changer so you're going to see a new redesign of a smart passive income as a result of the survey questions. This book is a validation for - or the survey was a validation for the topics in this book as well and just the marketing messages, the emails, the different buckets I've created in my emails now, but with segmentation. 

I mean we're also implementing personalization on the website, too, so depending on what bucket you're going to get served different content on the website which is really exciting. So survey your audience and if you don't have the tools or the opportunity to just have conversations, like maybe it's the one thing. Reach out to somebody in your audience or somebody who's in your target audience if you don't have a website yet and just talk to them about whatever it is that that person is struggling with. Again, it's not about you. It's about what that problem is that you're solving. Do that because that's going to give you some golden information that you can use going forward. 

Jaime Tardy: 	And seriously at this conference I've heard that like six times. The billionaire from Priceline, Jeff. 

Pat Flynn: 	I thought I was being unique, but - 

Jaime Tardy: 	No. You're being accurate, very, very accurate because I think that's what's insane. People avoid this as much as humanly possible, but it's one of the most important things that you can be doing and I feel like you do this. Your people know you so well and you know your people so well which is - so where do we find your book. Tell us all the spiel because I'm sure everybody is going to run out - well, type out and get it. 

Pat Flynn: 	Thank you, Jaime. So, head on over to willitflybook.com. At some point you'll be able to preorder it or if you're watching this in the future you can then purchase it which is exciting. It also comes with a companion course. Actually there's a course that's available completely free. We give information in the book where you log in and every chapter has certain bonus materials or videos to help you through the exercises because again this isn't a book like a lot of the other books out there. 

My big pet peeve with books is like it tells you the thing that you should do, but not how to do it and I hate this because it's like a missing puzzle piece and so this book is chock full of exercises to help you through the process of validating your idea and that all comes free. Worksheets, PDFs, instructional videos, other bonus content with other people who have validated their business ideas too. So again, you can check that out at willitflybook.com and you can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Periscope at Pat Flynn and the main site smartpassiveincome.com. 

Jaime Tardy: 	Pat's amazing. You guys know that. If you didn't know that already, you now do. So thank you so much for coming on the show today. I've been waiting forever and it was amazing. 

Pat Flynn: 	Thank you, Jaime. 


[End of Audio]

Duration:  43 minutes 

Video Transcription provided by GMR Transcription Services

Tags: Beta Testing, Business Validation, Idea Validation, Market Map, millionaire interview, Online Entrepreneur, Pat Flynn, Product Market Validation, Startup, Will It Fly?

Categories: All, Business, Entrepreneurship, Millionaire Interviews

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