Strategy For the Long Game With Raj Bhaskar

Co-founder & CEO at Hurdlr – Raj Bhaskar

Why it took Raj only 5 years to start doubling his revenue. (And is it possible to speed this up for you?) This one thing you need to do in year one of your business will help you stay in the game when you hit year three! What keeps Raj’s open rates AND response rates super high. (Even when he’s cold emailing or hitting people up on Linkedin, this has NEVER failed him.) What is a “partnership model? and why it outperforms any selling approach you can think of. How to build your network and get introductions to the right people? And the one tiny thing that makes all the difference when you actually get introduced to them!

Check out Hurdlr.com for more info.

Thanks so much for listening!

Transcript: Download

Jamie Masters: Welcome to Eventual Millionaire, I'm Jamie Masters, and today on the show, we have Raj Bhaskar. Now, I'm super excited, he runs a company called Hurdlr, he was actually apparently just in Austin, and I missed him, and his previous company was called Visual Homes, which he sold. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Raj Bhaskar: Thanks for having me, Jamie; I'm really excited to be here.

Jamie Masters: So, we started - I started asking you questions even before we started recording, and I was like, okay, I need to hold on, because I have so many things. Tell us what Hurdler does, so everyone has a good picture of what the current company is.

Raj Bhaskar: Sure. Hurdlr is a mobile app, for independent professionals, freelancers, and other small business owners, to easily manage their business, finances and taxes, on their phone.

Jamie Masters: Yay, that sounds so sexy. Tell us about Visual Homes, because that was a C4 company also. What did that one do?

Raj Bhaskar: Visual Homes was a rental management platform, specifically for affordable and subsidized housing. So, we had - when we exited the company, I had about a half a million rental units under management, couple million residents. We were doing around $200 million in monthly rent processing, and that's for subsidized housing, public housing authorities, and units like that. So, market rate, I think would have been closer to a billion a month. It wasn't market rate, but it was good platform, good business.

Jamie Masters: So, you apparently loved software companies. So, tell us a little bit about how you - especially once you've sold the company, and you're going and you're sitting around - because that's what you do right, after? You're just sitting around?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah.

Jamie Masters: You sit there and you think -

Raj Bhaskar: Sit back and relax, yeah.

Jamie Masters: Exactly. Phew, that was tiring. I forgot what I said. Yeah, how did you come up, and start going to this space? Because it didn't sound like you had a lot of financial service company type experience beforehand.

Raj Bhaskar: Well, actually - so, the previous platform was a financial platform. So, it ran, even for housing companies, it ran all of their accounting and financials. And then, because of the rent processing - so, we were dealing with all kinds of payments, and other things. So, it did actually lend itself to this. And, there are some real estate aspects to our current venture, because real estate agents are one of the largest groups of independent professionals out there. But, yeah, so, the real thing was, we started off looking at small business. And, one of my things, when I look back in my previous venture, that always annoyed me - and my controller from the previous venture will attest to this. Was just not having real-time financial data available, to be able to make decisions that affect the rest of the month.

Typically, the reports would come out, like, a week after the month was over, and that's not that helpful to me, if I'm going - if I'm trying to hit certain things, during the month. So, I created all of these internal tools, to kind of go around the system, to my own indicators. So, when I looked out there, I didn't really see that much. It was interesting. I saw that software went from Windows to the web. That's pretty much it. And, I don't think people really cared about that.

Jamie Masters: But, there are big players in the space, right? Like, huge players in the space.

Raj Bhaskar: Oh, right. Definitely, yeah.

Jamie Masters: What makes you sort of go into a space where you're like, oh, by the way, there's people with tons of capital, and tons of everything, are you doing it?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, that's a great question. So, my thinking, and I hope listeners really take this to heart is that, is that if you look at large, successful companies - I'll give an example of HP. They go through different cycles, right? But, when the new - when there's a new CEO at HP, when they add one, or they remove one, the stock shifts 10 percent. But, they have thousands and thousands of employees, right? So, it comes down to - a lot of times, the value of a company comes down to that initial five or initial ten people, right, that really build up the initial base. And, so, my view is that, even a company like that, if the head honcho makes the stock fluctuate like that, I saw that yeah, five people, you have the same time.

Time is the biggest resource. Money, I mean, with software, it's cheap to develop software cheaper. These days, to develop. But, it really was a function of that, and I said, with as much time as we put into the last venture - and, that was a very niche market, we did very well. We ended up dominating the space. Now, we have to go after something huge, right, because we have the same time that everybody else has. And, if you get the same, small group of smart people together, you can make a big dent. Of course, the competitive landscape is different, right? So, you have to do things more creatively, because we're going, playing around with companies that have hundreds of millions in their marketing budgets.

But, different companies have different strategies. But, I think the main point is, that's how I viewed it, that - I actually viewed it that it would be a waste of time, and risky to not go after a big market. Because, we're not really about money, per se. We wanna create major value.

Jamie Masters: Okay. So, going back to the previous company, when you started that, did you plan on it being as big as it was? Were you like, oh, this is gonna be huge, and it's gonna be amazing, and that sorta stuff?

Raj Bhaskar: I actually thought it would be a quarter of the size of what it got to be.

Jamie Masters: Okay, so when was that realization point, where you were like, oh, huh. Okay, I could grow this way bigger than I initially intended?

Raj Bhaskar: So, I went into it kind of with a five-year outlook. So, probably around year four, when we hadn't moved the needle that much, in terms of financial indicators. But, we moved product wise, and reputation was building up, and then, it just started coming. From year five onwards. Like, from year five to year ten, we were doubling our revenue every year.

Jamie Masters: Why do you think that is?

Raj Bhaskar: I think because we took the time to really build up our reputation. And, that is two-fold. I think two key parts on building up reputation - well, three. I mean, it all stems down to having the right people, and the right culture and mindset. But, so, that's the first part. But, the real two parts there - when you do that, when you hire top notch people, you can have the best product, and then service. Like, your customer success. Customer success is a big term that's used these days. I totally believe in it, but I also - like, some of it, I'm amused by a lot of it, because I actually had staff whose title was Customer Success, between 2000 and 2010. Early on.

Jamie Masters: You're like, been there before everybody else, buddy, thank you.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, I mean, our customer conference, our annual customer conference was called Visual Homes Success. Right, so I totally believe in that.

Jamie Masters: A customer conference, that's ridiculously impressive. Most companies will not - but that took you four years. So, a lot of people don't - that's a long time. A lot of people are in year two right now, going, oh my gosh, it's gonna take two more years before I feel like things are actually picking up?

Raj Bhaskar: Yep. Yep.

Jamie Masters: How do you mentally deal with that?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, it's - that's challenging. There's no question around that. I can tell you that, in my current venture, I was already prepared. My whole mindset from day one was a 10-year outlook. So, how did I deal with it then is, it is challenging. You go through different things, and how do you - you have to have intestinal fortitude. That's a term that I like. And, I think I developed that during that venture. I don't think -

Jamie Masters: You develop it, yeah, that's one thing we've heard.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, I don't think I had it completely.

Jamie Masters: Tell me more. How did you go from not having it to having it, because everybody needs that, as an entrepreneur?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah. So, first, you have to understand your market, and know that it actually exists, and you're providing a major value product. So, you have to do those validations early on. If you don't do that, you're not gonna be able to have the confidence in year three, when you're not hitting numbers, that it's still there. So, I started off cold calling what I call the Housing 500. The 500 largest housing agencies in the country. And, it took a whole summer, and I interviewed the right people at each of those agencies. So, I had a whole landscape of the market. The only thing that didn't show up in those interviews is that a lot of the agencies were off in their predictions of when they might go out for new software.

Some, off by many years. So, instead of it being a five-year market, it's really a ten-year market. Which is obvious, anytime you have the government involved, they typically are ten-year cycles.

Jamie Masters: Did you say you got into it early, and that's why it took so long?

Raj Bhaskar: No, not at all, not at all. It's just, that's where, in certain markets, and I think most markets, your reputation is very important, unless you have a $2 widget. I mean, if you're going - we were doing quite a bit of enterprise level software. Reputation is important. And, I think that's something that's important here, even on a new venture. Customer success from day one, like, we have in-app chat, live, in-app chat with our team, right? Uber just added that. I'm not saying we're a $60, $70 billion company, but I believe in customer success, and we're helping entrepreneurs, right?

So, we have to give them that helpline, and we do that, we do it in an efficient way, but we still do it. So, yeah, it does cost us quite a bit, but then, we're learning so much from it, and then, we're building a raving fan base, because of it, and you're not gonna see huge financial numbers from us right now, but you will in a couple of years, right? And, that's because we're building that right base with that long term outlook. So, I think for the entrepreneur who's a couple years in, two, three years in, and they're not seeing anything, if they've done the validation, and they know that market exists, then, you've gotta stick with it, you've gotta keep your expenses low. And still churn it out.

Because other companies will come and go. It's your reputation. They're gonna start to become more and more comfortable with you, because you're there. You're not just gonna disappear. After several years, they see you're not transactional. That's where you start building up relationships. So, I think that's a key thing. If you have done the validation, and you're still not hitting the numbers, I think - or, sorry, if you haven't go do the validation, right? I think that's a key thing, and people that know me close, I'm a huge fan of cold calling, or cold calling 2,0.

I hit people up cold on even LinkedIn, and email. The value prep has to be solid, but I'm going for a conversation, and exploring. I'm not going for a sale.

Jamie Masters: Tell me more about that. Tell me about the system that you use in order to do that.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah. So, you know, some could argue that it's easier, because I've already exited. So, if so, I'm - if I reach out to someone, and they respond to me, I still have a very high success rate of open rates and responses. Actual responses. But, I think it's because I go with value. I don't know that people really read that much, and if you hit them up on LinkedIn, do they actually review your profile first? I don't think so. I think they look at the message first, and then, maybe afterwards they look at that. So, I go with value prop. Not sales, I go very detailed. Like, I'm looking for something in particular, a lot of times I ask - if it's the CEO of a company with 100,000 employees, I'll ask them if they can help me find the right person in their organization to chat with.

Jamie Masters: And, they'll do that? They'll take the time to actually - because an ask up front seems like it's harder to get something back, do you know what I mean?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, so, I often get the call directly with them.

Jamie Masters: Okay, tell me what language you use, because a lot of us are going, I've tried that, thank you, not working, right?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, well, I think it's all - it comes down - it's a mix of things, right? I think it's a mix of what I'm up to, like, what I'm talking about. So, I'm not - again, I'm not selling a widget. Again, I'm talking about tech, and value add, not trying to sell anything. Seeing where, how do we make their people more profitable? How do we make them more - that's what our app does, it makes entrepreneurs more profitable. So, I think that's a key part of the pitch. So, if you look at what you do in your own business, how does it lend itself to talking with a potential partner? So, don't view the person as a customer. I take a partnership approach.

And, some of it comes from back in the day, when I first worked for a wireless software startup, back in 1999, my first job out of college, our whole model - this was when wireless phones had modems attached to the back.

Jamie Masters: Yeah. That was fun, too, that was great.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, pitching vaporware. That was when our - the business I was working in, we were going for a partnership model, so I honed a lot of it then. I was doing a lot of cold calling, and I always went -

Jamie Masters: Tell everybody what a partnership model is, out there.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, you're, I think it's where, at least in tech world, it's like, you're seeking a partner for distribution of your product. Either to their customers, or folks they work with. It could be their own people, internally.

Jamie Masters: Because you said I'm not selling you anything. Are you partnering, and then having them validate the actual software, without them having to pay anything?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah. It's really, how can we - it's kinda like, on a high level, how can we work together, to see if this is something that can make you guys more money? Right?

Jamie Masters: Who says no to those things? But, you have to do it in a good way, because otherwise, you don't wanna sound like a skeezy salesperson. But, if you're -

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, but I'm not doing sales, and it's thinking long term, right? So, I'm not expecting - these are two year cycles. So, it's better than in my previous business, it might've been a five-year cycle. But this would be a two-year cycle. And, I think, what happens in time, of course, is when I start getting partnerships under our belt, we have to social proof out there, so you can reduce the cycle times, but I always lead with value proposition. Right out of the gates. Like, this is what we've done for over 50,000 Uber drivers. We've made them more profitable, right? We've helped them reduce their taxes, which basically increases money in their pocket.

So, if you're a company that has a lot of independent drivers, that's interesting. Or, if you're - we did a deal with Keller Williams, that has all these real estate agents, and they also drive around, right? So, there's part of that, there. But, we just went with - they just have the right culture. I think we got pretty lucky there. And, we're just the right fit for long term partners, and there's like 150,000 agents. The largest in the world. Yeah, and they're growing at a faster clip -

Jamie Masters: Did you make that deal? That's the thing that I find - so, I'm assuming you made - because that's a lot of people. So, there's a difference between validating your product, partnership wise, right?

Raj Bhaskar: Oh, yeah, sure.

Jamie Masters: Versus real partnership, where you end up making cash.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah. So, we were just talking about opening doors, basically. And, a method of opening doors that I use without - other than intros, right? So, you have to build your network, and get introductions from the right people, to the right people. Not just to the right people, it needs to be from the right people. And, still, you have to take the time to do it. You can't just build a relationship in 30 days, and try to flip it into a major transaction. People see right through that. That's not - people know you're doing business, and you wanna do business, and people wanna be friends these days with everyone they do business with, too. So, I always say, my thing is, I'm the same person inside my house as when I walk out the front door.

I only have one set of values, my personal values. And, I use those personal values in my business life. Like, that's it. I'm the same guy, there's no difference, I will not do anything for money, no way. It doesn't last, it's not worth it. I just wouldn't do it, right? So, all my team members here, we all love each other, and if that changes, then we should part ways. Everyone should be smiling on the way in, and smiling on the way out, and it's the same thing, whether it's your partners, or vendors, we have Comcast in our office, because it's a requirement.

It's the only internet service available in the building we're in. And, that is literally the only vendor that we use, that we don't like.

Jamie Masters: Yeah, see, I used to work with them also, in my last job. Oh my gosh, anyway, side note.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah. We haven't actually had an issue with the line, but I just don't like Comcast, period. I've had a terrible experience from the consumer side, and just wouldn't wanna work with them, so.

Jamie Masters: Well, the main thing is, you can choose who you work with, and the fact that you have those values is extremely important. When you were going through beforehand, and saying the referrals, and the getting the right people in the network, this is a question I get a lot. So, a lot of people will be like, that's great. You have a name, it's a little easier for you now, no. one. No. two, they're like, okay, well, do you just sit there and make a list of people you wanna meet? How do we strategically go about, and figure this out, in order to grow the company?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, so I think you always need to be building your network. And, I think that it's not always strategic. I think if you're overly strategic, then that might actually hurt, right, because people -

Jamie Masters: I can't be friends with that guy, because he has, yeah.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah. It's, you just have to keep expanding your networks, and get in the right circles, and so, there's different groups out there. I actually joined - my friend, Derek Coburn, he has a group in DC called Cadre.

Jamie Masters: I've interviewed Derek, Derek is awesome.

Raj Bhaskar: Have you? Awesome. Yeah, so he was starting a network, right when, this was literally right when I exited my prior venture, and I had gotten introduced to him by my attorney, who Derek was his financial adviser. And so, I met with them for lunch, one time, and we hit it off, and he was talking about this thing. But, he didn't want me to join, because I didn't actually have a business. He was concerned that I wouldn't be able to get value out of it, and said well, I'm not - that's great, I don't have anything to pitch. So, his whole model was, how can you help other people in the network? So, I said, I can just focus on that. How can I help others? So, that's a little bit of Gary Vanyerchuk there.

So, I joined, right when he started, and it was a running joke that I was a full time Cadre member. That's what he'd say, and I was the guy who was procuring all the - what other people had, and if it was something I could do personally. But, I made a lot of friends, and these are folks that, otherwise, I would've never met, ever. And, yeah, So, I think that's a solid example of stuff you can do that - I wasn't even thinking about business at the time. It actually affects how I think about business, and what I was getting into. I was building our platform in the background, but it was nowhere near ready for production. And, ultimately, we actually rolled it out to 25 of my entrepreneur friends, who were small business owners in different industries. Most of them were Cadre members.

Jamie Masters: Of course they were.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, and it's crazy to say it like that, I have no - that was not my plan. But, once I started talking about what I was working on, it was a couple years later. Otherwise, I would've said, I'm not really working on anything. Because I didn't wanna be on the clock like that. Then, everybody wanted to try it out, so that's what we did. And, it's kinda nuts, because you don't have to be extremely methodical on everything. You can just make friends and meet people.

Jamie Masters: Because you didn't have - I know my audience. They're gonna go, of course, it's easy for you, because you had time to do whatever, and network randomly.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, but not if you're talking about the first venture.

Jamie Masters: And, that's what I wanted to ask you about. So, time mitigation on meeting people. So, you're like, oh I went to coffee with Derek, or - we try to figure out, how many coffees can we go, and is it worth it? So, how do you mitigate time, and setting aside time for that, especially when you're growing a large business, that literally takes so many hours out of your day?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, so, back in my Visual Homes days, I'm not sure I really did major time mitigation. That was a niche market, I was focused on affordable and subsidized housing, so I would go to major conferences, I went to just about every single potential customer, on site visit. I think I only missed one, and that's when a family member passed away. I went to every single one, because I have to know my customers. So, that was something I did. So, beyond that, building up a network, I made friend with folks from Oracle Corporation, that I met at an early industry conference, and kept in touch with them every year, throughout the years.

And, I would either meet up for coffee, or go out to lunch, and many years into it, we ended up doing a deal together, five years later, for a very large housing agency. And, it was just - you know, it's like, you can't predict a lot of these things. You have to have some gut feelings, and it's really like relationship building. And, I'm not really, directly giving you that answer of a system, time blocking and all that. To me, it seemed pretty obvious where it's a complete waste of time, and where it's not. So, where I'm going for relationship building, a long term approach, it's not a waste of time at all. You won't see immediate results, but I'm not doing it, necessarily, completely for business. Right, you're just building up long term value, and worst case scenario, you've made a friend. That's the key, the minimum.

So, I think you can't short circuit a lot of this stuff. You can't short circuit relationships. That's really what drives a lot of this.

Jamie Masters: Yeah, so what's a running theme, though, is that you're in it for the long game, for everything.

Raj Bhaskar: Yes, yes.

Jamie Masters: How do you cultivate that patience? Because if we're looking ten years out, and you're going, okay, I'm building relationships for the long game, I'm doing this for the long game - we as entrepreneurs want everything right now, this second, fast, and we feel like we're making forward momentum and progress. So, how, tell us - give us all your wisdom on the long game, and actually being okay with it.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, and so, like, our app is all about right now. Because we're real-time financials, and in seconds, we - our working tagline in the office is, every second counts. We want a quick app -

Jamie Masters: You're looking ten years, how many seconds is ten years? Jesus!

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, but I take that ten-year outlook, because it's financial. We're going up, we're playing with some big companies, so you have to have - this isn't some quick flip - I'm not into quick flip stuff. I do angel investing. I'm not as active these days, because I'm focused on my venture, I pretty much just consider follow-ons, but I've done 40 over the past five years, and it's a couple million, to date. And, it's doing pretty well, but we'll see what happens another five years from now. I have a ten-year outlook on that portfolio, too. So, yeah. I think it's tricky stuff. Sorry, I lost track of the -

Jamie Masters: Well, I'm wondering about patience. So, do you - I know you're probably still working your butt off right now.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah.

Jamie Masters: But, do you set your goals to be a lot more reasonable? How do you deliver that patience within the ten-year, and not making as much momentum as you want to? Expectations different? How do you do that?

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, so for me, what's most helpful on a ten-year outlook is that - the way I approach building a business, and this is only my second real business, this doesn't include all the candy and soda selling, back in middle school and high school. Car detailing and snow shoveling, all the cash businesses. The thing that the ten-year outlook does for me is, that whatever we're doing strategically, we're basically adding value every step of the way. Everything we're doing should be adding value, long term value. And, so, what I mean by that is, one of the things in our platform is a real-time income tax calculation engine, that's currently supports all 50 states and DC, and we're rolling out in another month -

There's 5,000 localities in the US that have their own tax rules. So, we'll have the whole country covered, and then we're gonna turn on Canada at the same time as we turn on US Local, and then, we have some other, English-speaking countries to start off with. You can't have a short outlook on something like that. We have to take the long-term outlook, because we know we will be around, and my prior venture, six years - we sold it six years ago, and all the customers and employees are still there. So, we don't build a house of cards. So, if we're doing that with a tax engine, imagine then, sometimes the rules change. So, we have to make sure those rules stay updated, right?

So, we have to have -

Jamie Masters: One of the craziest industries to be in.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, hard stuff.

Jamie Masters: The government, yay, go! That sounds fun.

Raj Bhaskar: I like to do the stuff that a lot of people won't go after, because it's really hard. It's not hard - it's hard to make it, and it's hard to maintain it. So, we have those systems and protocols on, how do you keep this stuff up to date, right? So, that's a little bit of high level. In terms of bringing it down a notch, so, at least internally, here, we do a couple things. We have weekly allocation goals, with the team. So, everybody says, by Friday, I think it's either 3:00PM or 4:00PM, they submit on one of our slack channels, we do goals for the upcoming week, how they're gonna allocate their time, percentage wise. So, that's not a task-based system, it's like, okay, I'm gonna spend - I have 80 percent of my time on customer success, like on actual conversations with customers.

The other 20 percent I'm gonna spend on customer life cycle improvements.

Jamie Masters: Do you scrum'

Raj Bhaskar: Not really. This is straight - this part is just straight, very simple, high level, because I want people to think, be conscious of how they're spending their time. That they're strategically doing what they wanna be doing, because you get all these distractions, right? And then, we do a midweek check in. So, we do a daily standup.

Jamie Masters: Yeah.

Raj Bhaskar: It's just ten minutes, yeah, it's just ten minutes, and it's really, what are you up to today? Just so we can - people know what everyone's doing, and if someone has anything to add. Really quick, but on Wednesdays, we'll do the midweek check in, and it's really about, how are you doing on your time allocation goals? Because in a crazy week, maybe you got pulled onto something that was not on your list. It came out of nowhere, and we had to jump on it. And, that, these days, would be more of a business development opportunity than any crazy nightmare scenario, right? So, we do that, we have - we use KenBin, so KenBinize is the product we use, but for all the actual tasks, those are all in there.

So, they can be collaborative, and make sure things are tracked. But, that's kinda like the lower level. The ten year - going back to the ten-year outlook, So, not everybody is down for - when you hire, when you bring on team members, they're not down necessarily for a ten-year outlook, but they're certainly down for at least a few years. I think the ten-year outlook helps, because they see that I'm taking the long term approach, and not trying to make a company successful, like, build it up and flip it within two years. That's just not - those are few and far between, and even if you could do that, it's just not something that - that's not my thing. I'm not, I like hard work. I dunno. Somehow, it's in my blood.

Jamie Masters: This hard work. I like the problems; I like the mess.

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, I like working on the business, but I also love working in the business. So, I appreciate when they - I've seen a lot about that lately, about working on the business. I like doing both. So, yeah, it's a lot of time. I pretty much, personally - for me, it's work, and workout, and family time, that's it. I have a 7-month-old now, so those are my three buckets.

Jamie Masters: Oh, wow. So, you're not sleeping very much, either. Hopefully you are, but -

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah, I do alright. If you work out, like, whatever time you do sleep, you get pretty good sleep. So, four to six hours is a good range. Seven is, like, you can be groggy after that. But, yeah, like, I have the buckets. My buckets are for work wise, my buckets are recruiting, business development, and product, basically.

Jamie Masters: That's it, so working on the product is the end part of it, basically? Or, is that -

Raj Bhaskar: Yeah. I guess I do other stuff that fills in the cracks, or the little spaces. Those are my three key buckets. Product isn't always like, busy, because you go in spurts, but working with the team on all those different areas, biz dev and other things, and I have a percent on customer success. I read almost all of our conversations that go on. Yeah.

Jamie Masters: I love how normal it is. You're just like, yep, and then you keep chugging along, and you keep chugging. And then, you still keep chugging, and you keep going, right? So, that's what I keep pulling from everything you say. So, every day, we make our lunch, and then we do this, and over time, it all adds up. So, as long as we've got the expectations on an upswing - we have to start wrapping up right now. So, out of everything, what's one action listeners can take this week to help move them forward, towards their goal of $1 million?

Raj Bhaskar: I think it's focus. So, what is not adding value right now? There are many things you're doing this week that you're not adding value, that are not adding value to your business. I love the book, The One Thing, by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan. If you have time to read that, maybe not this week, but over the weekend, just read it real quick. Read the first couple parts, at least. That can get you to focus. You may have heard this so many times, but that's my key trick. Get the noise out, and focus.

Jamie Masters: So hugely important, yes. And, if they've heard of the book, and haven't read it yet, that's their own goshdarn fault. Go get the book. It literally takes an hour to read. It's so simple that you'll go, okay, I get it, okay, I get it. But, it hammers it into your head, which is exactly what entrepreneurs need, because we're sometimes a little thickheaded. So, thank you so much for coming on. Where can we find out more about your app, especially because we've got a lot of freelancers and stuff that are listening, where can we find out more about that?

Raj Bhaskar: Hurdlr.com, H, U, R, D, L, R.com, or you can look up Hurdlr in the app store at Google Play, and then, if you wanna chat with me, you can find me in the in-app chat.

Jamie Masters: All the listeners will be like, hey, how are you? Awesome, make sure everybody check that out, thank you so much for coming on the show today, I really appreciate it.

Raj Bhaskar: Thanks for having me Jamie, it was awesome.

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Millionaire Interviews

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