SPECIAL: From Mentee To Millionaire – $2 Million Cash In Less Than 2 Years With My Client John Lee Dumas

Founder and Host of EntrepreneurOnFire – John Lee Dumas

Today I am super excited to interview my former client John Lee Dumas who went from no business at all to a multi million dollar company in two years. We go over EXACTLY how he did it, and what worked and what didn’t. We also talk about going to high school together in a small town in Maine! It doesn’t matter your upbringing – you can achieve whatever lifestyle you want! 🙂

Resources Mentioned on this Podcast:

• Free Podcast Course
• Free Copy of Podcast Launch
• Podcasters? Paradise

Check out EOFire.com for more info!

Thanks so much for listening!

A LIVE LASER COACHING SESSION AND AN OPEN ‘ASK ME ANYTHING’

Transcript: Download

Announcer: Welcome to the Eventual Millionaire podcast - with your host, Jaime Tardy. Real talk and real advice from real millionaires, with a sharp focus on you - the Eventual Millionaire.

Jaime: Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I'm Jaime Tardy and you have no idea how excited I am to have my very good friend John Lee Dumas on the show today. He runs "Entrepreneur on Fire", it's an amazing podcast - most of you listening have probably heard of it and some of you have come over from John to listen to my show. He's a past client of mine so I've been looking forward to this interview forever. I thought it would happen for many more years but John is kick butt and does things really, really quickly. So I am really excited to welcome John on the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

John: Jaime, it is an absolute pleasure to be here. I couldn't be more excited myself. We talked a little bit in the pre-interview about just how crazy this is right here, that I started way back years ago, listening to your podcast and reached out to you to mentor me. Long story short, without getting into a lot of it, here we are at the end of 2014 having this conversation. It's definitely a dream come true.

Jaime: I have goose bumps.

John: Me too - on the back of my neck!

Jaime: Let's go into your story. I know some people have heard your background from your show but let's get into the whole podcasting thing. What did you do before we met?

John: Before we met - I grew up in Maine, which is a pretty awesome connection that we have.

Jaime: I'm going to stop you because I don't know if anyone knows this but john and I went to high school together.

John: High school!

Jaime: He's three years older than me. You were cool, I was not cool.

John: Goth is cool.

Jaime: I wasn't goth, I was punk! I had knee-high boots and a kilt, I was punk. It's crazy because when we first met in person I didn't realize until a long time later but we went to high school together. I don't ever remember talking to you in high school. Maybe we did, I can't remember.

John: Our paths must have crossed because it wasn't a huge high school.

Jaime: It was like 200 people and we lived five minutes away from each other, not even.

John: And our parents still do, right?

Jaime: I know! I'm going back to Maine on Friday for Christmas and you're not so I won't be able to see you. Maybe I'll go drive by your house!

John: My parents would love it if you stopped by, FYI. No joke - they know the whole story, they always ask about you.

Jaime: That's so awesome.

John: They would love a drop-in, I'm putting it out there.

Jaime: I will work on that.

John: After my wonderful 18 years in Maine I did go to college on an army ROTC scholarship so post-college I was an officer in the US army for eight years - four active, four in the reserves, did a 13 month tour of duty in Iraq. After my experience in the military I tried a bunch of different gigs - I went to law school for one semester and I quit, I hated it, went to corporate finance for 18 months in downtown Boston. There were definitely some exciting times then but overall just living in a cubicle wasn't for me so I quit. Then I tried commercial and residential real estate for a number of years and some good things and some bad things happened there but, long story short, it just wasn't me so I walked out the door and it was about that time, driving all the time, that I started searching iTunes for podcasts and, no joke, yours and Pat Flynn's and David Siteman Garland's were the podcasts that I would listen to over and over again while I was doing the minutiae work of real estate. While I was driving to an appointment, doing this, doing that, I wasn't listening to your voice or Pat's voice and just saying "I know I can get out of this, I can get out of this rat race, this uninspired life," and, again, to think that just a short couple of years later that I would be sitting here, having this conversation, never even crossed my mind as a possibility which is why it really is surreal.

Jaime: I love this. The thing is that I remember when you e-mailed me. I didn't know who you were or anything like that - I get a lot of e-mails from people and I remember that you were excited because you were in Maine and I was in Maine and you were like "Can we meet up for coffee or something like that?" and at the time I was busy and I was like "I don't know, John?" but I was like "I'll be at this Starbucks," I made you drive.

John: Oh yeah, a significant distance.

Jaime: For like an hour to the Starbucks that was near my house. I was like "I'll give you 20 minutes." We ended up talking for a really long time, though.

John: It worked out.

Jaime: And you became a client right there. I didn't even know what the meeting was going to be about and the funny thing is that I didn't even realize that we knew each other from before, I was just like "This guy seems really cool."

John: That's exactly how I remember it too. I was so nervous. I wrote that e-mail like 15 times because I felt like I knew you - now people tell me "John, I feel like I know you because I listen to your podcast all the time," and that's how I felt about you. I felt like I knew you from listening to you so much so I drafted this e-mail and I rewrote it and rewrote it and I pressed the send button, thinking in my mind "Jaime gets these requests all the time, this is just going to go through a VA, I hope she actually gets to read this," and I remember just saying "I just want to meet you. I'm looking to make this a valuable meeting. I'd love to go wherever you are to buy you a cup of coffee because I have this idea, this podcast that I need to take to the next level," and that first meeting was surreal, seeing you in the coffee shop and being like "She's real!" like rock star status in my eyes, because that was the world that I was in. it was a great first meeting and I was like "How can I pay you money right now to make this official" Because I know that I need a mentor - I'm clueless, I've never been in the online world before, I have no idea about podcasting, I have no connections, no relationships - you have all  of this and more because of everything that you've built up and established. What can I do to invest in myself to hit that fast forward button and kind of get on the Jaime Tardy train?"

Jaime: Which was hilarious because I had never helped anyone start a podcast before, I just had one. I'm a business coach but I usually work with businesses who do a couple of million a year or something like that and I was like "Sure, I can help you build a podcast." I wish I'd had someone to help me when I started. Pat is in my mastermind group but at that time he didn't have all of the crazy resources that he has now, he was just like "Go and do this, check out Cliff Ravenscraft." There weren't a lot of resources. So I thought it was great - sure, I'll totally help you," - but I mostly took stuff from the business side, like "You need a business," which is why I'm so impressed with you. don't get me wrong, I love podcasting, but you're on this show because of your marketing tactics - you created a massive amount of revenue in just two years, it's insane and you've been getting more and more and, of course, you post how much you make - so in case anybody doesn't know, how much money did you make last month?

John: $307,000.

Jaime: In one month.

John: Yes.

Jaime: That's insane. And it's not like it's just one -' you've been doing this constantly and it's been going up and up and up. It's ridiculously impressive "not that you haven't heard that before, but it's only been two years. So I have a question - going back to when we first met or even before that, because it seems like you hopped from different thing to different thing, did you ever have the goal to be a millionaire or super successful? Did you have a knowing at any time or did you not have a clue?

John: I knew that I wanted to be a millionaire. I knew that generating a lot of revenue and making a lot of money was a huge part of my goals for life, not because of the actual dollar amount and money, but because I knew the freedom that that would afford me, the freedom to actually choose what to do when I woke up in the morning, the freedom to take trips when I wanted to and the freedom to take my foot off the gas pedal if I ever wanted to and, again, not be under somebody else?s yoke, somebody else?s vision. Those were my goals. I saw the money aspect as taking off the chains of society, so to speak, and allowing me to get into the driver's seat. That's why I wanted to make a lot of money and that's why I wanted to create a business that would generate a lot of money so from day one when I sat down with you I was like "I know Jaime has amazing connections, I know she has amazing relationships, I knew that she doesn't necessarily teach people how to podcast very often," but the reality was that nobody did because not many people at that time were even coming out with podcasts, it was pretty few and far between. It's not that long ago but a huge shift has happened out there. When I launched, I was in New and Noteworthy for all eight weeks because there just weren't that many other podcasts being launched but now it's just every day, the saturation is huge for obvious reasons - because it's amazing - but I knew that you, Jaime, had those connections, had those relationships that I could leverage in a good way that could really help me hit that fast forward button.

Jaime: Is it everything that you hoped? Because people are like "I want this goal, I want this goal," and thankfully you hit the goal pretty quickly, because two years isn't long in the grand scheme of it all, but I remember the e-mail I got from you - "Oh my God, this is crazy!" - but when you actually hit that, were you like -Oh my gosh, this is such a huge, big deal,"

John: Yes, I think so. I was really excited because it was a number that I was seeing, that I was approaching. Again, this is cash in the bank, it's not assets.

Jaime: Which is impressive, because normally for millionaires that come on this show it's net worth - so it's assets minus liability. Yours is cash in the bank you sent me a screenshot.

John: My net worth is much larger than that now. I've gone over $2 million in the bank and I own a couple of places so my net worth well exceeds the $2-3 million mark at this point. I saw that cash in the bank rising and getting to that $1 million mark showed me that, yes, I have been providing enough value that people are continuing to want to invest in my programs, like "Podcaster's Paradise" and "Webinar on Fire", which is where the majority of my revenue comes from. Podcasting is amazing and has given me the audience, the notoriety and the ability to create things but the majority of our revenue, which you can see in our income reports, doesn't come from the podcast. We make great money on sponsorships - about $60,000 a month - but we make quadruple that in sales to our communities, so that's a bigger piece of the pie.

Jaime: One of the interesting things to me is that there were other people before you talking about creating a podcast. In case everybody doesn't know, "Podcaster's Paradise" teaches people how to create podcasts and monetize them and brand them and all of that stuff. but the thing is that Cliff Ravenscraft was already doing that, Pat Flynn had a free guide on doing that and then you came along and said "I want to teach people how to do this," and there were already so many people doing the exact same thing, so why would they listen to you? What made you start and go forward down that route?

John: I think that's a really important question to address and I'm glad you brought it up. Here you have Cliff Ravenscraft coming out as the "Podcast Answer Man", he's created a course called "Podcasting A-Z" which you go through, it's a 4-6 week course, for a couple of thousand dollars and he hand walks you through t and it's really powerful. Then you have Pat Flynn, who's in Cliff Ravenscraft's masterclass, and he's said publicly a number of times "I went to Cliff and said I was interesting in creating podcasting tutorials because my audience keeps asking about it," and Cliff's response was "Well, Pat, you need to do that because your audience wants to learn from you, just like my audience, the "Podcast Answer Man" audience, wants to learn from me." When I heard that, a lightbulb went off in my head and I realized I was creating a massive audience, Fire Nation, and they're coming to me with these questions, asking "John, how are you getting so many guests on your show? How are you ranking? How did you win best of iTunes in 2013? How are you getting almost a million unique visitors per month? How are you generating this kind of revenue through the podcast?" because I was publishing these income reports. That lightbulb went off and I realized that that's a really important question to address and I'm glad you brought it up. Here you have Cliff Ravenscraft coming out as the "Podcast Answer Man", he's created a course called "Podcasting A-Z" which you go through, it's a 4-6 week course, for a couple of thousand dollars and he hand walks you through t and it's really powerful. Then you have Pat Flynn, who's in Cliff Ravenscraft's masterclass, and he's said publicly a number of times "I went to Cliff and said I was interesting in creating podcasting tutorials because my audience keeps asking about it," and Cliff's response was "Well, Pat, you need to do that because your audience wants to learn from you, just like my audience, the "Podcast Answer Man" audience, wants to learn from me." When I heard that, a lightbulb went off in my head and I realized I was creating a massive audience, Fire Nation, and they'relike "Darn it! Why did I not do that?"

John: But let's just make a quick note - you and I have recently done a joint webinar where you brought your audience to a "Podcaster's Paradise" webinar and you crushed it. Now you're doing another thing and getting a nice little recurring revenue check.

Jaime: It's sweet, I sit here for an hour and make a ton of money.

John: Not a bad thing.

Jaime: Definitely not a bad thing. I think that's the thing that's really interesting and you should really pay attention to - I don't personally want to be the podcast lady. I know I keynoted the Podcast Movement and that sort of thing and I get asked a lot of stuff about that but that's not my vision for the future. What's cool for you is that that was so your vision for the future - even before you started your podcast you wanted to help people with this and I was like "You don't have one yet! Slow down, buddy. Let's create it first and then we'll talk about helping people."

John: I wanted to become the podcasting guy for my generation, for my audience, and I just didn't let anything stop me.

Jaime: Not at all. Let's talk about that, because I think that's ridiculously impressive. When people ask me about you, because they do, a lot.

John: Because I talk about you a lot.

Jaime: I know, it's a symbiotic relationship - "John's awesome!", "Jaime's awesome!" We do almost the same thing - I only do millionaires but you do entrepreneurs, which is almost the same thing, and yet we can still be really good friends and help each other out instead of being at odds. I would win though, you know that, right?

John: I know, the audience know about the tae kwon do stuff that you do.

Jaime: It's jujitsu, don't say it's tae kwon do, please!

John: Jujitsu! I would have gotten punched in the face if I'd said that in person.

Jaime: But that's the great thing - we live in a world where we can help each other out and all of the boats rise at the same time, which is awesome. There are tons of people that are in a similar niche but you rose really freaking fast, not only revenue-wise, which is great, but just in general, as an entrepreneur. I know you had done some stuff on your own before but nothing this huge. Tell me about some of the habits that you started to create and how much you worked. Because people wonder how much you actually work and they know you're a military man so tell us about that.

John: You just brought up a phenomenal point I want to touch on real quick. Here you are, you're a podcasting, a speaker, a coach, a mentor, Pat Flynn, Cliff Ravenscraft, me, all of these great entrepreneurs and the wonderful thing is that we're all incredibly close and good friends and are helping each other and it's that mindset of abundance that we've chosen to have. This is an amazing world we live in and we can all help ourselves by helping each other. So many people live in a mindset of scarcity where the think if someone is getting a big piece of the pie, they're getting a small piece of the pie. That's not the world I want to live in and so that's why I love this online entrepreneurship world where we're rocking and rolling because of that abundance mentality. To your point specifically about habits, which I think is so key and critical, I bust my hump, I'm not going to lie. You know this because we would do check-ins all the time and I actually publish how many hours I work per week in the income reports as well.

Jaime: Tell everybody how much it is, because it's a lot.

John: Typically between 70 and 80 hours per week.

Jaime: That's now. You haven't even slacked off. I'm impressed.

John: I have not slacked.

Jaime: At the beginning people work a lot, which you did, you worked your butt off. I remember I would give you action items and the next day you'd be like "Okay, I'm done. What's next?" and I was like "Are you serious?" and I would give you more and you were like "I'm done, give me more."

John: I think once you have that ravenous appetite to do more and more and more, like I have with podcasting, I think that's how you know you're on the right track. When you wake up and you want to start working on that project, on that next thing, that's the space that I was in and it was the first time in my life and I was 32 years old so I had spent all of my time up to that point not feeling that way. I was always kind of a hard worker in some ways but, believe me, I was a slacker and lazy in a lot of ways because if I wasn't excited about something I wanted nothing to do with it and a lot of people interpret that as being lazy or a slacker but I just didn't want to put any effort into something that I didn't see as exciting but as soon as I had that thing I was all in and I was working 70-80 hours a week. Even this past weekend I worked 8 hours on Saturday and 6 hours on Sunday. I didn't have to but I couldn't wait to get this funnel implemented and I had to rewrite "Podcast Launch" - I had a couple of new things so I rewrote my book over the weekend.

Jaime: Why? I'm really impressed with this - and I tell people this all the time when they ask about you - I am really impressed with how hard you are continually working because usually after you see some success you can breathe for a little bit or you're like "I've been doing this podcast thing for two years straight for 60-70 hours a week every single week." I know you've taken a couple of vacations but barely.

John: Barely!

Jaime: So how do you still have that passion and drive to rewrite your whole book this weekend?

John: I don't want to use the word burnout because I don't know if that's going happen but it will come to an end, this stint with "Entrepreneur on Fire". I don't know if it's going to be 30 years from now, 3 years from now or 3 months from now, I just know that, right now, I'm on fire with my business and I want to just keep on dedicating as much time, energy and resources as I want to. This won't be the case for everybody but for me, I just don't actually have these passions that some people have - there are some people who will spend every free minute that they get playing golf or surfing. There are a lot of times when I wish I had this unbelievable passion so I would go "I'm going to work hard now so that I can do this," but my passion right now is my business, Entrepreneur on Fire, so there really is nothing else I would rather do. Sometimes having to sit down and watch TV is, to me, more boring than cranking away on this business and fixing some things up and that's fortunate for me but I know I'm going to evolve and find other passions and I know I'm going to be moving in different directions in the future, I just don't know when that is. I'm just listening to my body, my energy levels, and I'm saying "I'm loving this, I want to crush this right now. I want to continue to add to this and build this business into something phenomenal."

Jaime: I love that. That's really impressive too. So tell me, two years ago, what was your two year goal or five year goal? It looks like you've accomplished it all but I'm wondering if you did any visioning or specific goal setting. Have you crushed the goals that you set or did you have any big, audacious goals?

John: This is why it's really important for everybody to have a mentor, because this is where you really came in and you were massive for me. You made me sit down on day one and write out some goals and I remember we had some specific goals like how many listens, how many e-mail subscribers, how many website visits, and I was so green and so clueless.

Jaime: I remember you coming up with numbers and I was like "Hmm, okay?"

John: I didn't even know what those numbers meant and you were like "Well, you have to write something down so just put down something and we'll adjust as we go forward," so the numbers that I wrote down didn't really mean anything because I had no clue what the audience out there was. I didn't know if 10 downloads per day was good or if I needed 10,000 downloads. I didn't know but I just had to start. Getting it down on paper was huge, so I always had those goals.

Jaime: Did you do goal setting at all beforehand?

John: Before being mentored by you?

Jaime: Yeah.

John: Never.

Jaime: Really?

John: Yeah.

Jaime: That's awesome.

John: Yeah, you were number one for that.

Jaime: Yes!

John: And that's why it was really huge to actually be able to go back and adjust them after a couple of months and say "That's what the numbers actually look like, now let's set some realistic goals, knowing what the business looks like going forward," and that has always allowed me to push that ball forward and continue to stay out of my comfort zone. That's one thing that's really a concern for a lot of people - when you are successful what tends to happen is you start to slide back into a comfort zone and I equate it to the right hand lane of the highway. These entrepreneurs that I've interviewed, there's a decent amount of them that were out there and they just slid over to the right hand lane because they were comfortable and then you have people like myself who just come in with a Porsche, pedal to the metal, flying by on the left hand side, but the reality is that I'm flying by with no brakes, my steering's off, I'm swerving over the road because I'm making so many mistakes. But I had you to clue me in to these big mistakes that I was making and help me avoid them or minimize the damage once I did have that big crash, of which there were many, because that's what you do when you're outside your comfort zone and pushing that envelope.

Jaime: Let's talk about some of those crashes and I think we should talk about comfort zone because I think that's huge. Comparing you to many of my other clients, I have clients who are very successful, especially coming up from nothing, like you were starting from a standstill and then getting in a Porsche, so that was really impressive. But the difference between clients, one huge piece is who is actually willing to take the action to push themselves outside of their comfort zone and lot don't and they don't realize and I have to call them out sometimes but even when you call it out sometimes they still put on brakes, so how do you push past that comfort zone every single time and just do it anyway?

John: That's a lot about having the right mentor but also being in the right mastermind. I know you're in a phenomenal mastermind; I'm in a mastermind that meets once a week - we actually met this morning - and every week we are on each other about goals that we set, things that we have to accomplish, so that if, individually, we are not keeping ourselves out of our comfort zone we have a team that is pushing us out of that comfort zone and making sure that we are always trying new things and putting ourselves into those uncomfortable situations and then actually setting those big, hairy, audacious goals. Like you mentioned, one of those big, hairy, audacious goals that I had, that you helped me set, was to launch my podcast on August 15th 2012 - and that was a big, hairy, audacious goal because it was a seven day a week podcast and so I had to, in less than two months, get over 40 interviews in the bank, coming from knowing nobody, having no connections, having no experience in podcasting, having to build a website, build social media, get people scheduled and interview them, all for an August 15th deadline. But guess what? Thanks in part to your help, I got it done and I was ready to launch on August 15th but this is where the big crash comes because I was ready to launch, I had everything in place, but then I work up terrified on the 15th. I was so scared to launch because, frankly, you and Cliff had been telling me "This is a huge goal. I love your energy, I love the direction you're taking this but a seven day a week podcast has never been done and maybe there's a reason for that - maybe this isn't something that people are going to want or maybe you're taking on too much right now and you're going to collapse under the weight," all of which was very possible but that realization came to me on August 15th and I was terrified, paralyzed with fear, so I came up with a bunch of BS excuses and I called you up and gave you the excuses and I was trying to sound as real as possible. You were understanding, you were like "Those are good excuses," and they were good because I was terrified so I made up good excuses and I even convinced myself that they were good excuses and I delayed for 15 days and then I delayed for 15 more and finally I delayed a third time and I remember during that third 15 day stretch - I had pushed it back to October 1st - you called me up and you were like "John, you keep giving me these BS excuses. The first couple were legit at the time but now, when I look back, they weren't really legit because you keep doing it and I see what's happening," and you said "John, if you don't submit your podcast today I'm going to fire you," and the only thing that scared me more than launching my podcast was losing you as a mentor so I launched on September 22nd 2012, a random day, because that was the day that Jaime tardy forced me to launch my podcast.

Jaime: Pick a freaking date, John! Actually do it! I remember that.

John: Those were your exact words, in exactly that tone.

Jaime: Come on! I will hit you if you do not do it!

John: "And I do jujitsu!" The huge thing is because I launched then instead of continuing to wait, which I would have done by myself, just a couple of weeks there was a dropout at the New Media Expo in the podcasting track and I had invested over $3,500 to be part of Cliff Ravenscraft's podcast mastermind so I was part of his community too and had made that relationship and he asked me to replace a speaker that had dropped out because I had a live podcast that was unique because it was seven days a week, it was at the top of New and Noteworthy and was getting good downloads and had good momentum because I had launched and so I got to speak at New Media Expo and the good thing about New Media Expo is that perception is reality so if you perceive somebody talking on a subject they're looked at as an authority on the subject so I went from being this new podcaster who was clueless, which I was, to somebody who was talking about podcasting who was able to rub elbows in a peer-to-peer kind of way at a conference like New Media Expo with other speakers like Pat Flynn, Michael Hyatt and Michael Stelzner and be looked at in a totally different way because, hey, I'm one of you, I'm a speaker, you've been on my show, let's have some fun here, let's grab a drink.

Jaime: It's a great networking tactic. That's one that I use a lot, even if I don't really care about who I'm speaking to, if I know that the other speakers are people that I want to get in with it's huge because then you're on the same level - "John's cool too, let's hang out with him." It makes it way easier to get them on your show and do other things too.

John: Six months prior to that you had forced me to go to Blog World, which was the best decision of my life, but I had never been to a conference like that before. So six months prior, I'm at this conference, I knew nobody, I had heard of just a few of the people who were there, but because I could introduce myself as being mentored by Jaime Tardy the doors opened and people were like "oh yeah, Jaime's awesome, come over here and have a drink with us." It was a game changer because of that investment that I made in myself with you and six months later I'm speaking at that same conference."

Jaime: I tell all of my clients to name drop me as much as possible if it helps them in any way. If you can get in, do it as much as you can. If my name does anything, use it.

John: I can vouch for that.

Jaime: I remember going around and introducing you to people and stuff like that and everyone thought you were crazy for doing a seven day podcast.

John: Yeah, they did.

Jaime: Everyone thought you were crazy, just so you know.

John: Across the board.

Jaime: But what's interesting is that you did it anyway. I don't know if I ever told you this but we were at Derek Halpern and Pat Flynn's party and I introduced you to a bunch of people and later I was in the speakers? room and some people were talking about you and they were like "This guy wants to do a seven day a week podcast. That's nuts," and I was like "Yeah, I know!"

John: But at the same time, wow, people are actually independently talking about it already.

Jaime: Exactly. I was like "Wow, he gets around!" I was really impressed but it was also interesting because it was controversial. People were like "I wonder how this guy is going to fare later on," maybe they wanted to see you crash and burn.

John: Of course. That's why we watch the racing on Sports Center - we watch for the crashes.

Jaime: Did you feel more pressure because people didn't think that it was going to work? You looked that in the face, with people who were experts. I said that you could totally do, give it a shot, it's not going to hurt anything but nothing like that had ever been done and you pushed through anyway. How did you do that and what was the pressure like?

John: It was a lot of pressure because two of the people I respected most in the podcasting industry - you and Cliff - were both telling me "You know, John, you might want to tone it down a little bit. Just start of slower and see how it goes and maybe build up to that." That made me freak out and think maybe it was a bad idea but it also made me excited - so I had these two competing emotions. I thought if Jaime and Cliff, amongst others, are saying that this can't be done or it might crash and burn, if somebody could figure out how to do it and how to do it successfully and consistently, that might be where the opportunity really lies. I saw that value with what you were doing with podcasting, which is what excited me so much, and I saw the relationships that you were forming with millionaires and other entrepreneurs because of your podcast and I said "Well, if I do a weekly podcast like everybody else, that's going to be four people a month I connect with, that's awesome. But if I do a daily podcast, that's 30 people a month that I'm connecting with and building relationships with," and relationships are the name of the game when you start, which, again, is why being connected with you helped me build all of those relationships but also having these conversations with 30 people a month on my show, as opposed to four, was an absolute game changer. I'm now on over 800 episodes - that's 800 entrepreneurs that I've interviewed, as opposed to the just over 100 that it would be if I had been doing a weekly show and that's a huge difference in terms of the number of relationships that you're making. Even with all of that said, I'll just circle back to say that I still woke up on August 15th so terrified and paralyzed with fear that I didn't launch until over a month later because of that fear and that doubt and I may have still not launched to this day if it hadn't been for you and that imposter syndrome is never going away.

Jaime: That's interesting, especially the networking thing. I've even had mentors on my board of mentors ask me if they should start a podcast and usually the things that I ask them about their business is whether their avatar listens to podcasts because if they don't, it might not be that good of an idea. But even if they don't, I ask them if there's anybody they want to connect with that they have a hard time connecting with - because you can start a podcast for the connections alone, screw the audience! I told my mentor this because he's a business coach and he had the "kill or be killed" mentality, like "There's a business coach in Portland, we can totally do better than them," and it felt kind of icky because he's a really nice guy and he felt that business is really cut throat and that's what I learned from him but then I got into the online space and everyone is nice to one another so I said "Why don't you just meet more people by having a podcast?" but he hasn't started one to this day.

John: Where he's going wrong, in my opinion, is if he had brought that guy into his circle of trust and then that guy down in Portland which, for people who don't know, is a solid 45 minutes south of Lewiston, would be someone in that area who wants a coach or a mentor and that could be another client for him who never would have happened otherwise. Even in regional areas, have a mentality of abundance - you're going to be happier and people are going to like and respect you more. In the online world there isn't even a pie, there's just an unlimited cloud that's out there and we're all just jumping in. It's like Strawberry Shortcake. My three and a half year old niece was over for the weekend and she was watching that. I remember those days.

Jaime: I used to watch that. I had a Strawberry Shortcake bedspread when I was growing up. We have to start wrapping up in a little bit, although I could talk to you for a really long time, but I want to know some hardcore marketing tactics. The interesting thing that I've seen you go through is this explosion with online marketing -whenever you put something out you try to push the envelope a little bit, with your podcasts and also your webinars. Give me the top two or three marketing tactics that have made the most difference in your online business.

John: I want to start by giving this really simple recipe that everybody has or will understand immediately upon hearing but nobody uses all of the ingredients. There are only three ingredients - free, consistent and value. So with me, how can I take those three ingredients and mix them together? A podcast is perfect for that, because it's free, it's valuable because I bring on very intelligent guests to talk about intelligent thing and it's consistent, seven days a week. Once a week is consistent, three days a week is consistent - it doesn't matter what the consistency is, as long as it's consistent. So if you're doing something that's free, valuable and consistent you're going to build something called an audience and there's nothing more valuable than an audience. I lovingly refer to my audience as Fire Nation and the number one marketing tactic that I started doing really early on was asking my audience one question - what is one thing that you are struggling with right now? And then I would listen to my audience, I wouldn't just put it out there, I would actually listen and have them respond and they would come back to me with their pain points, their struggles or obstacles, their challenges, and they would say "John, this is what I'm struggling with," and then I took that, I categorized it and I saw which were the most consistent ones, rising to the top over and over again, and then I created solutions for those problems that my audience, who knows, likes and trusts me, was having. I created those solutions and guess what? My audience was asking me about podcasting, about how to create their podcasts, how to grow their audience and all of these different things and that was the birth of Podcaster's Paradise and that was in October of 2013 so we recently had our one year anniversary and we've now done over $1.6 million in sales for Podcaster's Paradise in the mere 14 months since we opened the doors, making Jaime say "Maybe I should have been the podcast lady."

Jaime: I know, I would have been a millionaire by now! Did you get that question from me?

John: Totally.

Jaime: Because that's what I do! But I appreciate that. I love that that's one of your biggest things.

John: It's the biggest thing.

Jaime: That's awesome. So you created the thing that people wanted, which is huge, and podcasting is a huge trend right now so being on that is amazing. So you have this and your audience loves it, I think you sold it before you had too much of it done.

John: That's a really good point that I'd like to dive into quick because a lot of people make that mistake - their audience is telling them they have a pain point and they go into a closet for two months and they create the product and they present it to them and they say "Here it is!"

Jaime: I've done that.

John: I've done that too, to two major flops in a row. They say "Oh yeah, I definitely have that pain point but I'm not going to pay for it," and I'm like "Oh? that's something I should have verified before." Not just check, because people will say they're going to pay for it and then end up not paying for it. People will vote with their wallets - that's something you've got to get into your head. People vote with their wallets. We did this with "Podcaster's Paradise" and we did it with "Webinar on Fire" afterwards, we just said "Hey, you're telling us you want this, we're going to have a live webinar where I'm going to show you what it's going to be and if enough of you prove this concept by becoming an early bird, a founding father or mother of this community, "Podcaster's Paradise", then I'll create it, but not until then." So I was very transparent - "This doesn't exist and it's not going to for 45 days but if I do $5,000 in pre-sales on this live webinar then I will create this community," and that's exactly what we did. We did $7,000 in pre-sales, we sat down next to the grindstone and 45 days later we opened the door. Then, one thing we noticed is that, after the initial surge, we were having a pretty quiet period, which a lot of people find. We had this great launch and then things kind of dried up a little bit so I was like "How can I bring back that launch excitement?" and I said to myself "Why not do a live podcast workshop every single week?" and so I started doing that. Initially I was driving a lot of Facebook traffic to it, which was great, and now I just get a ton of organic traffic to this free live webinar every single week where we do 91% of sales.

Jaime: That's so impressive.

John: People are not buying into "Paradise" off of these webinars - they are going to the webinars, getting a ton of value, seeing my energy, my genuineness, my transparency and then they're saying "I want to be part of this community? and then they're joining "Paradise" and we're doing an average of $20-30,000 per webinar. The webinar we did with you, with your audience alone we pulled those numbers off and more. So live webinars are really powerful stuff, so much so that another lightbulb went off in my head about this content marketing world that you're asking about and that was that people are now asking me "John, how are you creating and presenting these live webinars that are converting so gosh darn well?" and hence product number two - "Webinar on Fire", let's create webinars that convert, and that's done hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales since we launched that and we launched it in the exact same way - people told us they wanted it, we said "It won't be ready for 30 days. If we get $5,000 in pre-sales then we'll make it," and that's exactly what we did. We got proof of concept and we created "Webinar on Fire" and now I do two of those live webinars per month. The list goes on. In the last couple of months I started doing even more exciting things that we can dive into if we have time about how I can now improve this funnel that I've created for "Podcaster's Paradise." I've proven that once people get in they love it - we have over 1,800 members now and are getting more every single day but how can I improve that funnel into 'Paradise'' Because that's our flagship.

Jaime: I get questions about this all the time, it's a stopping point, in fact. So you have a webinar - I get that, I can create a webinar, it makes sense. Where do I get all the people for the webinar? You said Facebook traffic or organic and people don't like just hearing that. They're like "Great, I've heard about this magic that is Facebook and the magic that is organic traffic," it's so intangible to people. So take me through your learning process - how this happened and how you made it better, getting these people there. I want to hear about improving the sales funnel but tell me how to make the webinar sell $20-30,000 a pop.

John: It's not easy. It goes back to what we started our whole conversation with - it's a lot of hard work. You need to be willing and able to work hard at what you do so that you actually then have the money, the capital, to invest in yourself. For me, with "Podcaster's Paradise", I said "How can I get more people to this webinar?" Just like I looked around at who I thought were the top podcasters and I looked for you as a mentor and I found you, I looked around and said "Who are the top Facebook ad guys or girls around?" Obviously Amy Porterfield crushes it but she doesn't do one-on-one mentoring so I was like "What can I do to take it to the next level?" and that's where I found Rick Mulready who had a course called "FB Advantage" so I bought that course and invested myself in that course and spent some one-on-one time with Rick and that allowed me to create a plan to utilize Facebook traffic in a very cost effective way to get people to these webinars live, because once I  have live attendees my eyes light up. That's gold.

Jaime: "People are listening to me! Oh my gosh!"

John: You'll never have a better opportunity to generate revenue from people than on a live webinar, in my experience, which has been pretty vast over the past year - I have done over 50 live webinars for "Podcaster's Paradise" alone, not to mention the other ones I've done. So investing in myself and that "FB Advantage" course and investing in myself with Rick to come in and look at the actual funnel that I was creating through the Power Editor of Facebook and then running the ads and actually getting people to sign up in a very cost effective way was really, really important.

Jaime: Let's talk about that. I love Rick also. You learned it yourself so are you still your own Facebook ads guy or do you have somebody else who does it?

John: There's myself and I also have my VA go through the course with us so he's actually kind of the Facebook ad guy because he learned along with me so we both know it.

Jaime: That's great. People do this all the time - they listen to the course and they don't do anything with it or they do it for three weeks and they're like "That's okay. What else?" So give me the timeline on how long it took you to crush it from learning the course and how much money in ad spend are you doing? What does it look like from then until now?

John: We were really just implementing as we were going, which I highly recommend so that you can actually see it as you're creating it step by step. So I was going through the course and the ads were live and I would bring Rick in to look at the ads and give me some hypotheticals and ways to tweak and improve it and tracking things through. We were doing about $10 of ads a day and that's really important because it wasn't a ton of money that I was potentially blowing but I was learning a lot and once I got my numbers to where I wanted them to be, which took about two weeks, then we just cranked it up, turned the pedal to the metal, all the way to the right, and I started spending $250 a day on Facebook ads, so around $2,000 a week driving people to that webinar of the week. To show you some exact numbers, we'd be spending $3-4 per actual signup to that webinar and we'd be paying about $40 per show up - for each person who actually showed up to that webinar, because let's say you have 100 people sign up for a webinar, usually between 20 and 30 are going to show up live at the time, you usually have a 20-30% show up rate from the sign up rate. So we were doing $3-4 per signup and $40 per head to show up and then I was doing $100-120 per "Paradise" signup. Do the numbers work? Yes, because "Paradise" is a $1,000 program. There are other factors in there, like they could take the monthly pay plan and they could drop out after four or five months and then we've only recouped $4-500 or people may ask for a refund. We have about a 6-8% overall refund rate for "Podcaster's Paradise", so people do drop out as well. You can get a full refund because we have a 100% refund guarantee. So you have to track those as well but you know that when you're spending $100-120 for someone to sign up for a $1,000 program those numbers are going to work in the long run. We did that for a really long time, so much that we actually built up 15,000 e-mails in that campaign from people signing up for these webinars. Then we just thought for a while - we had saturated Facebook, we had been there for a while, we were starting to see our frequency increase, which is how many times one person has seen the ad, and it was getting pretty high so we took the pedal off the metal but we continued to market to those 15,000 people who had signed up for a "Paradise" webinar but hadn't showed up, because we could see who has still never been to a "Podcaster's Paradise" webinar. So every Wednesday we were saying "Hey, you signed up for a webinar in the past couple of weeks. We see you haven't come to one yet. We just wanted to let you know we're having another one live today, in just two hours. Here's the link for it - and, by the way, if you don't want these e-mails anymore, here's the unsubscribe link because we don't want to keep marketing to you," and we'd get about 100 or so people from our old Facebook list that we had already paid for show up to these new live webinars because the timing just worked out for them, adding to our organic traffic. We've been getting a couple hundred people live every single week for the last six months without spending any money on Facebook.

Jaime: Really? Why?

John: Because of that saturation point.

Jaime: But where did they come from? What's organic? Are they coming from your podcast or from your site? They're coming from somewhere.

John: My last call to action on "Entrepreneur on Fire" is saying "Go to PodcastersParadise.com and sign up for our free live webinar, it happens every week", so that's always driving people. If you go to my website, you see the "Hello" bar that says "Sign up for the free live podcast workshop this week" in the sidebar and we talk about it in our newsletter and I'm interviewed on about 4-6 other podcasts every week and I talk about it in every one of those podcasts. So that organic growth is free and it's really targeted and valuable, marketable traffic and it's by doing all of these things - by working hard and planting seeds, knowing that that seed might now sprout today, it might not sprout next week. I've had people say "John, I've been to 12 podcast workshops because I enjoy them. I like being there, I like being in the chat room, I learn something new every time I'm there, I like your energy and I didn't buy until today."

Jaime: That's awesome, though. That's a testament. And the fact that you're not in it for the quick buck, it's "When you're ready, I'll be here. Every freaking week I'll be here." Does that get tiring, doing a webinar or more than one webinar every single week?

John: It hasn't yet. I can see that coming because it's been going all year and, to be honest with you, completely honest, it's the thing that I look forward to the most every single week at this point.

Jaime: I know when we did it together I was like "How does he have so much energy? He's done this thing a thousand times before."

John: With very little change to it as well.

Jaime: It's funny, you did one with Sean Malarkey and he's on my board of mentors so he sent me a picture of me that was on your webinar because you mentioned me.

John: You've been mentioned on every single webinar.

Jaime: I love that everybody has heard of me! I get a lot of organic traffic from that. Just make friends with John and he will send people your way.

John: Totally. It really works like that. There's that $2,000 a week that I was spending on Facebook and you didn't spend a dollar but you're being mentioned on every single one of these webinars that I do. That's why you plant seeds.

Jaime: That's the cool thing - we all want to help each other so raising boats is not that big a deal. It helps your credibility too because if any of those people know who I am they're like "Oh, great, that's awesome!" It's so funny how symbiotic the whole thing is. We're very lucky that we live in the world that we do now with the internet and all of that fun stuff. I don't want to think of what it would be like otherwise - I love technology way too much. Neither of us live in Maine anymore either - you're in San Diego and I'm in Austin, just for the weather, right?

John: And just to give people an idea of what a millionaire's view looks like. It's not too bad. You haven't been down here yet, have you?

Jaime: I'm coming to San Diego for Traffic and Conversion.

John: We'll have coffee right there.

Jaime: I've never been to San Diego in my life.

John: Let's welcome you in style.

Jaime: There's a tree in the way at the moment but I have a pond in my front yard.

John: I'm counting on you, by the way, to let me know when the networking party of Traffic and Conversion is. I don't want to say that I'm conferenced out but I'm very specific about the conferences that I go to and that is just not one of them. I'm doing Social Media Marketing World, Tropical Think Tank, Podcast Movement and Content Marketing World with Joe Pulizzi.

Jaime: I am not actually going to the conference. I am sending Kendra, my online business manger, to attend and I am just going to hang out with a whole bunch of people. She loves that, she learns that way. Amy Porterfield said the same thing this week - she said we could go for dinner and that sounds great, I'm not going to be attending anything. I've realized this about myself - that's not how I learn; I can't learn in that environment. Kendra does, she takes amazing notes, and I just say "Tell me what was important."

John: For your listeners - that's how I started. I went to these conferences and I soaked everything up from the attendee seats, like you should too, but you are going to get to a point where you live and breathe this every single day and you're not going to get as much out of the actual speaking events as you used to but you're still going to get a ton out of those connections you can make at the networking.

Jaime: Definitely, because that's huge and that's why I want to go. I've heard that it's pretty good and I just want to meet people and hang out with some of my friends. You were talking earlier about the difference between going into the right lane or the slow lane and I was like "Darn, he's talking about me!" but that's my whole brand and that's good but it's still one of those things where I think I'm choosing fun over work. I still work probably 30 hours a week and I know that I could be doing a lot more but it's a choice and I think having kids makes a huge difference too.

John: It totally does. But what's fun is that this is work - this is the life that you've created.

Jaime: I know. I talk to my mastermind group, I talk to my coach and then I talk to you. This is the best work ever.

John: And this is a Monday.

Jaime: I know, I love Mondays! And so do you, I remember when you quit your job. It's one of those things, your life can change in a few short years. Your story inspires everyone anyway but I want everyone listening to really pay attention to that '- it's amazing what can be done when you have the drive and the passion and the market, and you had a great market too.

John: It's like that real estate agent who thinks he's so awesome because in 2004-2006 he was like "Every house I buy goes up!" Well, yes, every house went up so it's not you, it's the market.

Jaime: Exactly. But that's huge that you know.

John: Luck is when effort meets opportunity and the reality is that I got lucky but I put the effort in and very few people are willing to put in the kind of effort that needed to be put in like I did to get to a seven figure a year business.

Jaime: I also love that you know you're riding a trend and you know this isn't it, there's so much more. I think that's huge because people are like "Well it's just blah, blah, blah," and I'm like "Yeah, but he's well aware that he's riding a trend, it's not just a thing, that's why he's working his butt off right now, because this trend could go down and there's going to be something else and that's why you're prepping." I love watching you work because you're always prepping for that next thing.

John: Make hay when the sun shines and the sun is shining.

Jaime: Exactly, which you're a testament to.

John: But the clouds are coming. It's happening.

Jaime: But you're next to the ocean, you have a nice place, you'll be fine.

John: By the way, I like your background a lot more than the one you had back in Maine.

Jaime: Thank you. I like this one too, it's awesome. Someone said I should walk people around. People came to my house yesterday for Finn's birthday party and they were like "You have marble floors! You should walk people around." I don't care about marble floors but I should, and I love how you do that every time - you take your webcam and show people around, which is huge because you're looking at the ocean and that's a huge testament to where you are now.

John: There's actually somebody water skiing right now.

Jaime: Distraction! We have to wrap up soon - I've actually gone over an hour, I haven't done that in a really long time,

John: What?

Jaime: I know. Time flies with you, John. It's a good job we don't have anything after this. I'm going to ask you my last question and I'm so excited to ask you this question because I knew you back when. So what's one action listeners can take this week to help move them forward towards their goal of $1 million?

John: This is a very specific action and then I want to step back and expand on it. The one action that they can take is to find somebody in their industry, in their niche, whatever that might be, who is where they want to be. Again, for me, that was you. For other people in other industries it's going to be other rock stars, because every industry has its rock stars, and then go and reach out to that person, send them an e-mail and just make that big ask - say "I am looking for a mentor. Will you mentor me? If you agree, here are three things of value that I will provide for you right off the bat." A real quick thing about somebody that you introduced to me recently, Chandler Bolt - he wrote me an e-mail saying "Hey, John, can we jump on the phone for 30 minutes? I'm new to San Diego, I'd love to talk," and I said "No, sorry, we can't. I get 50 of these requests a week. I can't just jump on the phone for 30 minutes. I'd love to connect at the next conference," and then he responded and said "That's cool, but if you ever have time I've found four or five thing about your book, "Podcast Launch", on Amazon that I know would really improve its overall ranking and SEO so if you ever want to chat about that I'd love to help you out there," so I was like "Dude, how about tomorrow at 9am?" and so I chatted with him today because of that value that he provided. So my listeners, Jaime's listeners, reach out to somebody in your industry, let them know about who you are, what you want to be, what you want to do and ask them to mentor you and provide one or two or three things of value that you can provide to them right off the bat and, guess what? Be prepared for "No". A "no" is okay. When you get that "no" the next response is "Totally understand. Is there somebody that you, who I respect more than anybody else, can point me towards that would potentially be willing to mentor me?" When people do that to me, because I no longer do one-on-one mentoring, I point them to an amazing person that's going to be a great podcast mentor for them because I say "I don't teach people how to podcast anymore. I've walked away from that part of my business but I have an amazing recommendation for you. This guy is amazing in the podcast world, I'll make the one-on-one intro." So even if you get that "no", which is fine, from reaching out to that person, you are likely to make a great connection not only with that person, who you've hopefully impressed by offering great value to them, but also to that next person who they're potentially going to personally introduce you to. So take that action because the reality is - and this is where I'm stepping back and expanding now - if you want to be, you have to do. A great story about that is me, my journey, where I wanted to be a podcaster so I had to actually podcast. I challenge any of your listeners to go to my website and type in your name, "Jaime", and your podcast episode will come up, listen to that episode - not the second one, the first one - and after that episode I give a ten second pause and then I jump back on it and I say "So, guys, if you're still here you get a treat. This is the first ever episode I recorded for "Entrepreneur on Fire" which has never seen the light of day before this because I was too embarrassed to play it but I'm going to play it now in honor of Jaime coming on," and it's my first ever interview with you and it was horrible from my perspective. Luckily you were good so you were carrying the weight but I was really bad and that's okay - it's okay to be really bad because how else are you ever going to get good? Did Kobe Bryant make his first foul shot? No, but he continued to practice, I continue to practice, and that's another reason why a seven day a week podcast was big for me - I needed to do it all the time because I was inexperienced, I was robotic, I was naive, all of those things. I was just bad and it took me a while to get okay and it took me a lot longer to get kind of good. It takes time, so if you want to be, do. I wanted to be a podcasting so I did a podcast. Whatever you want to be, you have to do that thing.

Jaime: I adore that you said that because one of the things I say is if you want to be a millionaire you have to do what millionaires do and people go "Ooooh," which is why I asked you about your habits and how much you work, because it's not just necessarily about working 80-90 hours a week, it's about doing the things that are required in order to have the life that you want, even if it's do now for later. You're riding a trend so you know that, short burst-wise, you have to do this for a couple of years, but imagine yourself three years from now - you're going to have so much cash that you'll be good for a while and not have to work. So being able to decide which way you're going is huge but the fact that you're going it, you're waking up really early, you work so much, you do seven podcasts in one day, you're walking the walk, which I think is huge.

John: And that's just one of my podcasts.

Jaime: Exactly! You have so many podcasts it's insane. But that's the thing - you're a testament to that and I want to make sure that everyone realizes that you're not just saying it, you're actually doing it too. Guys like Chandler, he's 21 and I was ridiculously impressed with that guy. He sends me random gifts too - he sent me a panda bear the other day - just little touch points, he's so smart for being 21 years old. When you start doing those things that really set you apart from everybody else, that's how you become a millionaire and I want everyone to listen to that too.

John: Chandler sending you little gifts, like a panda bear or a little stuffed cougar, that's really impressive stuff.

Jaime: He sent Kendra food. I know, thanks for my stuffed cougar, that's hilarious!

John: I was hoping that you weren't going to get it but your listeners would.

Jaime: No, I'm quick. I was going to let it go but then I jumped back. It's a good thing I love you, John.

John: I love your fingernails, by the way. You should show your audience your fingernails today.

Jaime: They're gold. I've said it a thousand times but I want everyone to make sure that this week they do that stuff - everything that John is saying. Mentors have been huge for me too, like ridiculously huge for me. Not that you can't succeed without them - when I surveyed everybody, about 50% had a mentor. The 50% that did have a mentor said that it was way easier because of them so you can totally bang your head against a wall if you like.

John: I still have a mentor.

Jaime: So do I, I have a coach and I have a board of mentors now because I had too many and I couldn't decide so now they all talk together so that I get one answer because I was talking to too many and it was a bad idea. Thank you so much, John, I so appreciate it. Like I said, I could talk to you forever. I just miss you, which is why I wanted to talk to you for so long. Tell us more about you - where can we hop on that weekly webinar, if anyone wants to do a podcast or everybody? I'll send everybody to you because I don't teach that stuff, so tell us everything that we need to know.

John: Sure, well I like to keep things simple so EOFire.com is where all the magic happens, that's where we have everything, but one link that would be pretty cool is FreePodcastCourse.com and that will take you to a completely free 15 day podcast course that will give you everything that you need to know about podcasting. It's something that I have recently added to my business that I'm really excited about. We already have about 700 people going through it and we just launched it a couple of days ago. it's a really cool, free podcasting course which is going to give you a lot of great knowledge and, of course, for your audience I do have a gift - EOFire.com/gift, no option required, it's just sitting there waiting for them, a PDF of my book "Podcast Launch," which is the number one ranked book on podcasting on Amazon and it's just a gift from me to your listeners.

Jaime: Because we love you. Thank you so much, John, I really, really appreciate it. Everyone check that out and we'll put up all the links so that everyone can just click on those. Thanks so much. I hope you have an awesome day, John.

John: I miss you too.

Jaime: Miss you, bye! Give Kate a kiss from me, I love her too!

John: Will do.

Jaime: Bye.

John: Bye.

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