Lessons Learned from Multiple Failures with Successful Serial Entrepreneur Dan Martell

Founder and CEO of Clarity – Dan Martell

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Dan tells it like it is – how his earlier companies were failures and everything he learned from each one. He says, “The more uncertainty you are able to live with the more upside there is.” Discover how he still has fears now, and how he mitigates them. Packed with info!

Check out DanMartell.com for more info!

If you need information in your business? Ask an expert on Clarity.fm!

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Transcript:

Jaime: Hey guys! Just to give you fair warning, this is an awesome interview with Dan but there's some swearing involved. So, I know I have listened to it with my kids before. Make sure you don't listen to this one with your kids, unless you have a chance to turn it down when that happens. I just want to give you fair warning before it started. I hope you enjoy it. Take care.


Jaime Tardy: Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I'm Jamie Tardy and today I'm excited to have Dan Martell on the show. Dan sold the company called Flowtown and he has a new start-up called the Clarity. And, it's funny because I had this idea a long time ago and did nothing with it. So, I'm really excited to have Dan talk about it today because he's actually doing some amazing things. Thank you so much for coming on this show today, Dan.


Dan Martell: Thanks for having me, Jamie.


Jaime: So, before we're going to Clarity -- which I love your shirt, by the way. Dan: Thanks.
Jamie: I should have worn mine -- oh, not my "Clarity" shirt. Though, you could send me one if you want and I will wear that, too.


Dan: I will.


Jamie: [laughs] Tell me about how you even started as an entrepreneur because you've done a lot in your past. Now, I wanna sorta go back to the beginning.


Dan: Yeah. I mean, I don't look at it as a decision. It's just kinda who I am. I've always been kind of. . . I call myself super unemployed like I could never work for somebody else. You know, I built snow castles when I was a kid and used to rent them out, you know, to get in the real estate when I was about 12. So, I don't know, I just always been doing stuff like that in my teens and I discovered computers. And, I think that's when things changed. So, when I was 18, I started a vacation rental website. That was very much like VRBO but very focused on the small region of Cummins in Eastern Canada. So, my lesson learned there was pick a bigger market. I mean, the name was maritimevacation.ca. So kinda, you know, I didn't really have a lot of room to grow. Then, I did a web hosting company called MB Host. Biggest lesson I learned there was don't start a web hosting company.
 

Jaime: [laughs]


Dan: A lot of people that build websites think they should and it's just absolutely commoditized and not worth it.


Jamie: Mm-hmm.


Dan: And then, I just kind of tried a bunch of different projects until I figured it out what the company called Sphere, when I started when I was 24. That was an enterprise portal company, so we have customers like Procter and Gamble, Dell Foods, and Johnson and Johnson. I would grew that to thirty employees, millions of revenues and then got acquired in 2008. So, that's kind of like my early failures to finally
figuring it out and there's lot of lessons learned there. Then, I went on to do Flowtown, you know, the last five years and then now, Clarity.


Jamie: Okay, so let's sort of dig in to that a little bit 'cause you sort of gloss over the ones that didn't seem to work very well. Were any of those smaller ones, did you feel like they were a success or did you feel like they were all sort of failures?


Dan: No, I mean I've never -- I don't like the word failure because like -- I've everything I've done to this point is kind of DNA and content and education. So, to me like the first one was just like -- I always tell people to get them out of the way, like get out there, start, fail because the first ones are more likely gonna fail so it's kind of like just getting your training wheels off. So yeah, I learned in the beginning
like. . .would the vacation site pick a bigger market, right? If you're gonna start even if -- you know you need to start focusing on small to kinda build some compression in a market or kinda get known but at least name the company and other things so that it can scale. The web hosting company was value proposition. Make sure you have some things unique and differentiated. They have margins. Also, I recommended you don't build a company that requires you to be awake 24/7, managing emails -- I mean, that was just crazy /


Jamie: / [laughs]


Dan: I would [think] it. I closed like 10 clients and then I was like 24/7 supporting emails servers and Web site -- I mean that didn't make any sense. So, all lessons learned and to me they. . .you know, I lost money in the hosting company like I think I lost 15 Grand and my brother gave me some money as well, so I learned a lesson there. But, you know, I just think if you keep playing the game and if you're still in it and you keep swinging, eventually it's gonna work out. So, I would only feel like I would have lost if I would have quit at that point.


Jamie: Mm-hmm and I need to highlight that. That was six years like, you said you were 24 when you started the one that actually started really working for you. Like, six years isn't a long time in general when you look over everything but when you're in it, it seems like I'm sure. . .forever.
 

Dan: Oh it's a lifetime! I mean, it's just six years of going sideways, right? Six years of trying and failing and it not working and people asking "What are you working on now?", and then, all this new idea. Then, they start to doubt it because they've seen you start other things that been panned out. So, you know, that's probably the hardest part. It's just not succeeding and not having people kind of second guess, you know, what you're doing but to me, it was just, I believed in it and I knew eventually it's gonna work.


Jamie: So, did you ever have doubts, though -- because when people do that it starts to ughh -- feel ecky. So, did you / ever


Dan: / Every week. Jaime: have doubts?
Dan: Every week. I mean that's, that still happens today. You know, as you grow as entrepreneur, you just start working on bigger more interesting, harder challenges. There's always gonna be doubts around who your customer is or how are you're gonna finance your growth or how the product works or service, whatever. So, I think what you end up doing is just building this really great ability to deal with uncertainty. I think that's the -- Sorry, my phone is ringing. You know.


Jamie: And sir, I love how you said uncertainty and then the phone ring. Dan: Yeah! [laughs]
[Jaime laughs]


Dan: Just roll with the flow. Yeah, you just learned that . . . you know, to me it's the more uncertainty you were able to live with, the more upside there is. Because, I think there is a direct correlation from not knowing how it's gonna work, whoever's gonna work and still deciding to move forward in the potential success you're gonna have as an entrepreneur.


Jamie: Mmm-hmm. Dan, do you think that's something that grew into or were you always like that?


Dan: Yeah. I feel bad 'cause I go. . . I speak in these universities and stuff, and the entrepreneurs are like "But, have you always thought like that?" and the answer is "No". Like I wish! I mean, no I didn't. . . and you know, people asked what would you say to the younger version of you? I would just share those ideas but at the same time it's kind of like you need to go through it, right, you can't fast track that, definitely you can learn from other people, you can learn from their mistakes, etc. You can read certain
 
information sooner than later. But, I think something is just take time, right, you can't create a baby with nine women in, you know, one month, so you can't, you know the certain lessons.


Jamie: What a good idea, wait. [laughs]


Dan: Yeah! [laughs] That's so quick! And, I just think same thing with entrepreneurs that certain beliefs are built over time because you need to have a gone through and achieve certain mode of success as well to kind of get to that level of understanding.


Jamie: Hmm. Okay. So, let's talk about this. Actually, we talked about Flowtown happen to you because you had success before you want Flowtown and I love hearing how successful entrepreneurs start a new venture because they knew that they take all the good information that they've learned before and apply it. So, how did you start Flowtown? What did you -- what was the point? What was your goal with that?


Dan: Yeah, I mean. . . So, I built my previous companies in a place called Moncton, New Brunswick in Eastern Canada. . . and after I sold Sphere, you know, I kinda. . . I jokingly said I retired. I built a new house; I bought a cottage, a hot tub and wakeboarding boat. I thought what, you know, what more do I need I can just chill out here and. . . just be helpful with other people about. I was gonna retire and that lasted for about four months. I've got absolutely bored. All my friends are back to work. You know, summer time was great and they were back to work or school. And, I just thought there's gotta be kind of a next chapter in my book and what I wanted to kinda accomplish. So, I packed up my bags and moved
to San Francisco. Essentially, halfway through building my new house, I just like suitcase and a mountain bike. I landed in San Francisco and didn't have one friend, contact, [...] like nothing, / nobody.


Jaime: / What?


Dan: Yeah, it was crazy. I mean. . . I got an apartment on Air Beam B. . . for a month and I landed there on September 1st, 2008. . . and just starting to go on coffee shops. So, Flowtown was. . . again, I tried to start companies to solve problems I've had and Flowtown was an experience I have with my brother, who's a home builder and. . . you know, helping him build his marketing programs using social media and content. You know, not using traditional real estate agents and trying to do a different thing. But now, it's considered [emblem] marketing in social media market. This in 2004 or 5, he started, you know, in
Twitter. . . Early days, Twitter and Facebook but. . . You know. . . and I just thought that there was no product out there. You know, people would say "Hey! What you did for your brother, how how do I do that?" And there was no. . . there was no roadmap. There's no like "Go use like e-mail marketing. Go use mail chimp, right? There is no equivalent for social media marketing and that was the problem we set out to solve with Flowtown.


Jamie: Okay. So, you knew that the information was needed. How did you know that you're gonna make it into a business, what was the plan for it?


Dan: We just started building a prototype. So, I found my co-founder, Ethan. He move to San Francisco within the same week. . . and we live two blocks away, which is just fate. A mutual friend introduces us on Twitter. So I was joking, we've met online and. . . we started to work on different ideas and different
 
approaches to marketing and social media and eventually figured out a product that we felt really good about and we just focused on it. So I mean, I give, you know. . . I've invested 200 thousand initially as seed capital to build it up and then at some point we ended up doing 20,000 a month in revenue. We raised a venture round and have some amazing investors like Mitch Kapor, and Dave McClare and bunch of guys. And yeah, it was kind of like I wanted to move the valley to see if any might have crazy ideas would actually hold water with some of the smartest people in the world, right? 'Cause they definitely intact. It's like if you're an actor you go to Hollywood and if you're financing in New York and when you're intact, you go to Silicon Valley. And. . . you know, in the plan was go there build a company and raise capital and get acquired. I mean that you know, or go public but I never think I'd actually do it, I just. . . / you know


Jamie: / [laughs]


Dan: I just [wept] because I thought I wanted to do something. Jamie: I'm bored at home. Might as well.
Dan: Yeah, and it worked out. You know, I still kinda laugh at that but. . . Yeah, it was really just -- I wanna build. I'm a creator. Like you know, I do some angel investing so I invested in another companies and people ask me if that's what I like doing. I would never do that full time. . . like I love building! From building those tree forts and renting them out to, you know, building Web sites and applications, I just. . . it's what I love to do is to create a world and solve problems that I think have an impact. Slowly, an idea like Clarity that is more than just a company, it's got a purpose. And Clarity -- Flowtown definitely had one as well. It just felt like lots of small businesses were getting -- taking advantage of a lot of social media marketers, selling them. . . You know, promising them the world and really doing nothing more than managing a Twitter account for, like a thousand bucks a month. / So,


Jaime: / Mmm-hmm.
Dan: we have a purpose on that company. Definitely I feel Clarity has a bigger goal and that's fine. Jaime: Okay, let's talk about Clarity. So, when did you start Clarity? And what was sorta the intention
behind that one?


Dan: Clarity. . . It's funny, I mean, anybody like yourself Jaime, when you start a company, it's like. . . Is it the day you incorporate it? Is it the first-time you ever thought of the problem and how the solution might look? I mean, the idea for. . . So, Clarity is an ideal place for business advice. We help connect experts with entrepreneurs and business owners over the phone. It is very much like eBay for business advice. I've always felt like that the biggest thing that made Sphere work for me that the company, finally, eventually figured out how to build business was getting great advice from people that had been there before. So, I learned at a very young age that, in a very geographically-challenged location, in the middle of nowhere, how to get on the phone with people that had been in my shoes before they built 10, 20, 40 million-dollar companies. That changed my life! So, I thought if I could solve that problem for other entrepreneurs around the world, how would that look in and how would it work. The first version of Clarity
 
was just a link to a form that allowed people to put their name, their phone number and the reason they wanna talk. It created a call cue for me and whenever I was free. When I was like driving for 45 minutes or walking between meetings, I hit start calls and we'd call people back all over the world. So, I would Tweeted out. . . People would just submit their reason, their phone number, and I would hit start calls and I was like. . . It's like a / radio show. . .


Jaime: / [laughs]


Dan: It's the most interesting thing in the world because I remember one time, I went to the roof of my condo. I talked for 2 hours! People from India, China, Japan - because of the timezones. And people were just blown away that, you know, they have been following me in Twitter for a couple of years and here we are talking about their start-up / and


Jaime: / Yeah.


Dan: I just thought there's gonna be -- there's something here. So, I mean. . . That was January of 2012 and, yeah. . . So it has been. . . Publicly, Clarity's been out since May. We've done over 13,000 calls. We have 10,000 experts, 50 plus countries from people who had called in for advice. And, yeah, things are going really well.


Jaime: Okay. It is funny 'cause I totally have that idea because I live in the middle of nowhere, too. And, that's the only thing. . . [laughs] That's the only thing you can do is talk to people that actually know somewhere else because nobody lives around here.


Dan: Yup.


Jaime: So, tell me a little because it's funny to go back through 2012 and when did you actually sell
Flowtown?


Dan: October 2011.


Jaime: OK. So, you have some time in between, too. What were you doing in between?


Dan: Ahh no. So, here's the short version of that. So, we got acquired October 2011. That's when everything closed. It's kinda started in summertime and I was working at the acquire. The company was called Demand Force and I was running the marketing department, the whole [P-man] over there. They were downtown San Francisco, a great company that actually got acquired by In2It / for $450 Million.
 
Jaime: / No.


Dan: Yeah! So, this is the cool part is I actually walk away from my earn out. So. . .most people, they were in the position to sell their company. . .most of the acquires were all talking about an earn out some period of time -- you know, sometimes -- at worst case three years -- which I think is ridiculous -- two years, one year. That is [tad] some kind of performance and part of your financial outcome. So I was working there. . . you know, I call it ["dustin' in peace"], you know. I went to work everyday but. . .really, I was just, you know -- it's a different pace working at a / company


Jaime: / Work? No.


Dan: Yeah! Start-up hours versus corporate world like -- you can get done in two hours what people take a week to do it. . . just different worlds. And, that's when I essentially had the idea for Clarity was -- all these people are emailing me after the announcement, asking me their pick-my-brain and I wanted to be helpful. I wanted to respond to them. That's when I built the first prototype, and like toward the end of the year. After I saw the initial traction, I just thought, "I can't do this for another year". My earnout was only a year and I only have 10 months left. But I just couldn't do it and I thought, "I would rather" -- I don't
know. . . it's weird because everybody was like "Why are you starting another company? You don't need the headaches". . . It's hard, right Jaime? Starting a company from scratch is just -- the first 2 years is really the hard stuff until you get in to like new challenges. . . but I just thought it was just an interesting problem and somebody had to do it and the timing in the market; the technology was available; mobile was there; identity online was there. Just felt like, it was a "now" idea and then, the other thing was part of brain going like "Who are you telling other people to take action and follow their dreams if you're gonna sit there for the next 10 months and not do it for yourself?" I was like -- so I just said "Screw it!" and I
resigned in December and walked away from my earn out. So, the good news is -- walked away, started working on Clarity, it took off and then, into a biased demand force and all my shares got invested and I ended up still getting my earn out. I just think the universe rewards people that go after their passions and goals in life, and that's an example that I'll never forget for the rest of my life.


Jaime: Did you get everything you want? Men!


Dan: It worked out! I mean, you know, you just do -- you try to be helpful with other people and good things happen.


Jaime: Mmm. So, let's talk about Clarity because I love that you said, "It's really hard first few years, ridiculously hard." Tell me about some of the hard stuff because we listen to you right now and we're like "Wow! That sounds really easy! I wanna do what he does." It's not like that at all!


Dan: The hard stuff, I mean, I have a list of things that I call them assumptions that were completely wrong but it's still -- for the first two months, Clarity didn't have a searcher directory. I was building a utility for experts to make themselves available to other people; they promoted it the way they wanted to; they could use it in email, Twitter -- there's no directory. You signed up and that was it. That turns out to be completely wrong. 98 percent of the visitors coming in to the website, they wanted advice and they didn't know who and they wanted to search. So, we fix that. Second thing was we didn't have scheduling, which is crazy! And I realize this because there was a personal opinion on product. I actually didn't like my life scheduled and the thing that changed it for me was having my son, Max, in August. So, for 8 months of
 
the product's exist -- not eight months -- six months of the product's existence, there's no scheduling, which is crazy! You just request a call with you and you call me back whenever you wanted to. It could be like 3 in the morning. Yeah! I was an expert. I was getting calls at 2, 3 in the morning and I said, "Okay, this sucks!" But I just, I felt that I wanted to keep it super fluid and not restrained and that was just bad! The numbers did not make sense. People did not respond. So, you know, they're just like -- it's just challenge from the product point-of-view or even trying to understand who your customers. Initially, we launched to a very tech-focused community, you know, [early doctors] etc. It was my network of friends and, you know. I think it was good to get early traction but they're not the ones that spend money, right? You gotta build the business, should not the product, right? You can't -- I could not just build the core product and doing lots of calls but you also have to build the business so it continues to go forward, you know. That was another challenge like "How do you migrate this community to more good-paid
community and monetize it and what-not?" There's not really a lot of challenges but, you know. . . the way I look at challenges is I'm grateful that I have them because it is usually pretty high quality, right? Like they're not, they're not really bad stuff like "Where I'm gonna sleep tonight?" or "I don't have any food to eat." -- that's really hard! What I've got to deal with, I mean, we raised $1.6 million on venture funding
like. . . I can't complain about the problems, I gotta do it. They're first-world problems.


Jaime: Definitely! Definitely! Okay. So tell me, though, because what I think is interesting is anybody that starts something that are already has a base like you already had a platform -- of course, it's gonna be easier for you. You already have people in Twitter that would go right to it as soon as you talk about it. So, we -- right, the people that are just starting are like "Wow! That's not the same. Of course, he's gonna be able to do these." What I found interesting that you said was that it was not even the most people that you really necessarily needed. How did you transition from, yeah, having that big start to the community that you wanted instead.


Dan: Yeah, I mean. . . I think it definitely helps for like, you know, people ask me, "How do you raise your funding? [While] you make people money in the past?" You're pretty much sum, "We're something new." And they said "Okay, I'm in again." So there's a lot of things to it in Clarity that were different than / Flowtown.


Jaime: /Mmm-hmm.


Dan: But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, the principles hold true, right? So, the first [time] that was Clarity once I realized we gotta start charging people was I went on Skype and I just ask people, "Hey! Would you pay to talk to Lewis Howes, Neil Patell or.." Like, my friends that I knew had. . . they're more notable and people would pay for them. And they said, "How much would you charge?" Then I
would try to find people that would pay and then, I would "Paypal the money and I would make an email [throw in]." Like, that's how you start. So, I mean almost anybody can do that if you don't know the people you just call them. That's what we do now. We invite people in LinkedIn. We invite people, you know. We look up Corra. We just find really great experts that we know our audience is looking for. Because, we look at the search terms. We extract the names and. . . So, it's just more of a. . . there's no reason why I can't -- I think some people they say, well, "I just can't call-call this person" or "I can't just call-email that person". Definitely, if you have [...] do that. . . like don't call or email if you don't get an intro. But, in the sake of getting something done today, you just do it! So, I mean that, I mean my life is spent on my car is JFDI so I don't know if this podcast is PG-13?


Jaime: Say it! Say it anyway!
 
G: Just fuckin' do it! That is my. . . that's the way I live! If it's a good idea, you do it today! You don't like -- too many people like think about all the reasons why it shouldn't work or it's too hard or I can't. I think just because I'm so now-focused, my ignorance is bliss. It's like, I don't even think about I can't do it -- I just do it and I'm like, "Oh shit! That's really hard!" Like when I was still in Sphere, we opened up an office in the U.S. Did somebody sat me down and told me how much work it is for a Canadian to open up a U.S. office and build a company? I mean, it was the most -- it took 10 thousand hours and I'm like, I would've never done it but. . . I just thought I should and I should have that. And, we opened actually opened up in
Bangor, Maine.


Jaime: Did you really?


Dan: Yeah, that's where the U.S. office was. I just think a lot of time, you just have to take action. That and everything I've done is probably -- people call it [hassle] today -- whatever you wanna call it, I don't know.
I just know that if it's a "fuck yeah" decision, you do it today!


Jaime: Mmm okay. Because it's funny you talk about Clarity and the first thing you come up with is, "Oh, you wanna talk to Lewis Howes?" But, why would he even wanna talk to somebody? Like he makes -- I've interviewed Lewis. I've interviewed Neil.


Dan: He said, "I'm a thousand an hour." And I'm like, "Fuck! That was a lot of money!" I mean. . . You know, I'm gonna try to get him some calls and he's like, "Look, dude, I don't need to do this." And I'm like, "Argh!" But I learned a lot! Right? I learned by talking to him, how he did his time. Maybe the Lewis Howes of the world, they're not the right guys for Clarity from an expert point of view. That's what I'm saying is you take action and then, you learn, you irriterate. I think whoever can get around [y'all], [increased] calls in a [lean] start-up, you know, the feedback cycle loop. Whoever can do that the fastest is gonna have success in business.


Jaime: Mmm okay. But, just actually going in finding out what works and doesn't work is the hard thing. And / a lot of


Dan: / [...]


Jaime: new entrepreneurs can! Like they can't get pass their own fear of taking that action like you said. So, what -- especially like thinking back to you when you were younger, right? / Try


Dan: Yup!


Jaime: to remember that and how things were. What advice can you give to people to just fuckin' do it!
 
Dan: Yeah! I remember there's this moment, things changed for me is when I. . . When I started Sphere, I saved up all my money and I said "I'm gonna do this this time" and I hired three people from Day 1. Two of the guys I worked with before, they were like 22-23 and I was 24. And then, this other guy, Andrew, worked with them. And I asked them "Who's the smartest person you worked with?". They say, "This guy [pay]" -- all three of you, come one over and work for me. I was going to Andrew's house to give him his
A-chart paper -- we had Math for coffee, I really like him, he's very smart-- So, "Where do you live? I'm gonna come over and drop you off the paperwork." And when I knocked on the door, there's this 3-year- olf girl who kinda opened the door. And I was like, "Hey!" -- you know -- "Is Andrew here?" And then, she screams "Daddy!" And, I'm like "Oh shit! He has a kid!" And then, he comes from upstairs and then he goes "I want you to meet my wife, Jill." And I looked up and she's pregnant! And. . . Of course, I wanted the company to be succesful but. . . I tell you what! You wanna figure out what gets you to take action is really motivation to not screw up because you have other people accountable. It wasn't just me anymore. It was Andrew deciding that "I'm gonna quit my really good job" -- he worked at the best company in town
-- to come work with me at a start-up. If I didn't make it work, so there was no -- let's just say, you're not gonna have your job back at the other company. I did everything in my means possible to not screw it up. That's where I decided to get my ego out of the way, ask a lot of questions, talk to people who've been there before, read a lot of books. I mean, that's probably one of the things. I read different types of books today but from the -- I'm a programmer. I used to be an introverted geek, right?


Jaime: Sweets! Sorry! [laughs]


Dan: Yeah, we should reunite -- that's that! That's how it is. You teach yourself how to be more extroverted and be like -- I read every book on sales. I read every book on management. I mean, I was just so determined not to screw it up for other people. That helped me create that kind of behaviour. Once you start doing it, you see the results, it's kinda just rolls on itself.


Jaime: So, that's a lot of pressure, though -- especially like. . . Number 1: Why didn't you run? Because that's ridiculous for a 24-year-old can. Number 2: How do you get through the stress of that? Because that's extremely stressful!


Dan: Yeah, I mean, there was a moment two years in the company. . . I mean I love my dad. He has never start his own company-ish. Yeah, we have rental property, vacation rentals. He's the one that gave me the idea for that site. But he never started his own company so his advice was "Don't go too fast" and I was like, "No!" -- the opposite! I don't wanna do this unless we're growing. We ended up growing a 150- some percent year over year.


Jaime: Really?


Dan: Yeah! It was a crazy ride. What he meant to say was only grow as fast as these things are true: cashflow, revenue, etcetera and the cue is in the business. I don't know if it's true for your listeners but the end of the year is kinda weird period in the business because nobody makes decisions for the new year with regards to buying anything. All your employees are on vacation. And, you're stressing out looking at your pipeline and forecast, going "How -- and I just hired 4 new people" and I'm looking. . . I don't have
the projects. I don't have everything in place. I don't have the money -- like we're gonna run out of money if it doesn't work out. . . and two year into it, men, I was going crazy! Like I thought, I made the wrong decision. Finally, it's catching up to me. You can make a lot of small decisions and fail, but you make a couple of big ones and you're "Oh!". And I thought for [sharing] that point it was gonna be the end
 
of the game. I just cut down the basics, cut the sales and it worked out; got great advice from some of my mentors but it's always hard. It never stops.


Jaime: What is a day like that -- if you would go back, tell me, what a day like that is about? Because you're stressed as anything as you don't know what to do like take me / through what it was like.


Dan: / Wanna know the truth? Wanna know the truth? Jaime: Yes.
Dan: I would lay in the bathtub for two hours and put my head under the water. Just sit / there. Jaime: / And have a little straw or something, right?
Dan: Yeah! I just didn't wanna deal with it. You talk to entrepreneurs like this is normal. The highs are high. The lows are really low. The way I look at it you gotta give yourself that time because it is human to feel that way. You also get a say that "At this moment, I'm done! I'm okay acting like this but 6 PM tonight, I'm working 'til midnight to fix it". . . So, I'm gonna watch TV, I'm gonna lay in the bath, whatever you -- whatever coping mechanism you have. But you gotta make sure you don't stay there. You gotta take action. That's what we did. I mean, it is what it is. It gets better and better but. . . there's still moments in the last couple of years where it just happen-- should happen and you gotta deal with it.


Jaime: Mmm hmm. Thank you for that! Thank you because a lot -- we don't talk about the really, really cracky points. Especially, that -- Oh my God! I don't even wanna think about work. Because we, entrepreneurs, supposed to be like "We go! We solve problems. We do what we need to do," which sometimes you don't feel like it.


Dan: I know! I think that -- it's almost like every person has so much energy. I don't if it's energy or will power, or whatever they have -- so much amount of time they can invest, once that's depleted, you need to recharge. Because, if you are operating in a depleted state, you are actually doing nothing. You're checking your email. You're checking Twitter. You're not really working. I think you gotta give yourself that time, and be okay with it and not feel guilty. A lot of entrepreneurs will feel guilty. They'll be like, I feel half the work. You know what? If it's Monday and you know your brain is not there, take the day off. Go running. Go. . . whatever! Go biking. Go visit your family. Take the day off. Tell your employees "I'm not feeling good" and come back Tuesday recharged. You just not gonna be good to anybody. You're gonna be okay with that.


Jaime: How do you not feel guilty for that, though?
 
Dan: Over time you learn that it's the best thing you can do. In the beginning, you just gonna trust that -- damn said it was a good idea, I tried / it.


Jaime: / I love that!


Dan: Trust [blind in faith] and then, you'll see it actually works out. For entrepreneurs, it doesn't matter if it's a Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, like. . . If your head is not in the game, and you need to take a day-off. You're better off removing off yourself from your business for that day and letting your brain kinda figure out how the pieces are gonna fit together.


Jaime: I see. I think most people are scared that they'll continue like -- it's not just a day thing, like you wanna run away from it. Instead, like you said.


Dan: You gotta say "Tomorrow, I'm back in" or "Tonight, I'm back in". You just can't say -- you gotta have -- you gotta make that before you give yourself permission to take the break.


Jaime: Okay. You can't just run and hide, and be like / "Don't find me. Dan: / Yeah! Put my head in a stand.
Jaime: "La la la la la..." So tell me about -- because you talked about your son, Max, was born. Dan: Yeah!
Jaime: Your world -- "I have children" -- your world probably fundamentally changed big time when that happened. Now, it sounds like you have a lot of freedom but you're also doing a start-up. So, tell me about what that transition was like 'cause your wife was an entrepreneur, also.


Dan: She is. She's amazing. . . I mean, the thing is -- it changed but it's exactly what I wanted. I absolutely love that I have a son. We're actually having another one. I think. . . I'm glad that I waited and had some success because that means there's more resources also to help. So, you know, we have somebody that takes care of him throughout the day. We wake up with him -- I didn't want somebody to kinda raise my child. But I wanted somebody to be there so that when we're working we can really focus. So right now, we're in Florida. . . invited the whole family down. We have somebody that takes care of all the kids. My brothers here. . .There are four entrepreneurs in the house. And it's funny 'cause at 10 o'clock, there's like conference calls going on in every different room. I just think that you just plan around it. That's the most amazing thing because as an entrepreneur, you're used to changing. You're used to dealing wth chaos
and it's definitely a big change. It's definitely chaotic but it's normal, right?
 
Jaime: Mmm hmm.


Dan: It wasn't that big of an adjustment. It has been an absolute, amazing experience so far. It continues to change and be awesome everyday.


Jaime: Congratulations on Number Two!


Dan: Yeah! I'm excited. I want a whole bunch but Rene is kinda like "Whoa!" Jaime: [laughs]
Dan: Because it's hard on her. She's actually like actually be pregnant. She has to run a company, grow it. . . and, yeah. I definitely gotta give her -- you know, be soft to her because she's just amazing for that.


Jaime: That's amazing! So, your whole family, they all do -- they all have their own business?


Dan: Yep, pretty much! Except for my sister. . .I mean, you know what happened was -- when I was younger, I was kind of a shit-head I call it, very colorful upbringing. Then they were all [bad], I'm the oldest boy in the brothers. Then, when I started, you know, entrepreneur, they were all like "What is that thing?". You know how it is. You can't help but ask people "What are your passionate about? Why are you doing that if you're not liking it?" And, I think just those conversations over time, they're like "Fuck 'em! I'm just gonna do this!" And, I try to be as helpful as I can. You know, for my brother actually invested some of his [C-capital] at this home-building business. My other brother -- me and my other brother helped him start, you know, his -- he has a property [measuring] company. My mom wanted to start a -- buy the company she was working at, a delivery service company. So, both my two brothers gave her -- it was like just do that. Then. . . So now, because we have that freedom like, you know, we're in Florida for the month of February 'cause you know how it is in snow. I don't mind snow. I don't like the cold. / And, it's just been a really


Jaime: / Let me put the camera around so you can see the snow coming down, right now, at the window. Dan: It's crazy!
Jaime: So, that's / what's interesting. Dan: Yeah!
 
Jaime: Do you think was there any specific way on the way you guys were raised? Because you said you're family -- you're parents weren't entrepreneurs really.


Dan: No. You know, here's what I believe. . . is that most great entrepreneurs had chaos when they grew up. So, something -- I don't know -- for everybody, it's different. Some people, may be they have a mother that was an alcoholic like my mother. May be they had a parent that died when they were young. May be they grew up in a different part of the world and had overcome adversity that, you know, come over here. I just. . . Every entrepreneur that I meet -- like really great entrepreneurs -- is like everybody can build a million-dollar company. Well, not everybody but for the majority. But, when you are talking about like Elon Musk. They're fundamentally different, right? There's something -- the way they look at chaos is almost like normal. And, I think it gives them an advantage. If anything I think -- they just taught us from a very young age, not on purpose that we can take care of ourselves. That played a big part with regards to our belief in our abilitieso take care -- you know, in dealing with business stuff.


Jaime: That's incredible! So now, what does that mean for your family?


Dan: That's a great question because I actually -- as for males, I don't want my son to be an entrepreneur per se. He'll do what he wants to / do.


Jaime: Hmm?


Dan: But, I also don't want him to grow up in chaos so that he can be a great entrepreneur. So. . . Jaime: Let me put you through hell first and then. . .
Dan: Yeah! So then he will be ready for the world. So, I don't know. It's a great question. I'm still trying to figure it out. Actually talked to a lot of entrepreneur parents about how they look at, you know, education; and experiences from their child and stuff. It's a learn-by-day kind of thing. So, we'll see. You really don't
-- I mean, people would ask "You're dad must be very proud". So proud, I mean he's downstairs and all of the brothers have kids within a 2-year period. So, they're all like five months, seven months, six months, four months, new born, one year. They're all really small. We get the ability to travel on to the world and hang out together. It's great now, but it wasn't when we were growing up. But at the same time, I wouldn't change a thing. It's part of who I am and I'm happy that I gotta learn those lessons.


Jaime: Did you always know that you'd be successful like when you were younger? Did you always known? / Oh, I like that face!


Dan: / I don't know. You see, I don't even know. Success is a weird thing, right? I mean, here's the way I look at it I believe that I have certain skills that somebody gave me to do good with. It would disservice to myself and to that person, you know God -- whoever you wanna, whatever you wanna say -- to not do what I do everyday, to not create, to not solve problems. I think entrepreneurs forget this but. . . Entrepreneurs -- I don't care if you have a carwash company or plumbing company or, you know, HR
 
recruiting company. Like yous start -- you get up everyday to make the world a better place. I think that's a very special thing that most people don't do, that you have to recognize. I just feel like I have these skills, these abilities. I've got a leverage because somebody gave them to me to do good with. I went through crap growing up and I got through it. I would just -- I would feel guilty if. . . That's why it lasted 4 months. I couldn't -- I needed to do -- I needed to make sure I was continuing to have an impact 'cause I don't wanna feel at the end of the day that I wasted the time I had here. So, that's just my belief. I don't even -- I mean, success is a word thing. I don't consider myself successful because I'm still doing. I'm still trying to [essentially] actualize what I wanna see happen, which is a hundred million entrepreneurs use Clarity every year. If that happens, cool! I was successful because that is a dent in the universe, meaningful, million people impacted and anything less than that I just feel like I didn't play big enough game.


Jaime: There was a post last week called "Dent in the Universe". So, that's a hundred million! That's huge! I mean that's a legacy, for certain. But, how can you see that and just keep on going? A hundred million, so amazing! Huge!


Dan: Well, the beauty of living to me, I think everything entrepreneurs do is always about reference points or other people approximately, right? That's why it's important to get advice from people who has been successul. Because once you get to know them and talk to them, you realized they're not Einstein. They're not ridiculously smart. They're just -- they made some really smart decision and contined to
operate in that fashion. Being in San Francisco, I got to meet guys that have built million-dollar companies like Drew Houston from Dropbox, Joe and Brian from Air B&B. When I showed up in 2008, those companies were a little tiny. They were just starting and we'd go to coffee shops. I, now, have these
people that have done it. They're just like me. They're passionate. They did what they're focused on, changing the world as they said they would and everyday work towards it. It's kinda like you've seen somebody else who have been around it, then you can start to believe in it. I think that's true. No matter where you are in your business, if you have half-million-dollar company or 10-million, if somebody came here today and said "How do I do that?"and you thought back to all the steps, you could probably do that
3 or 4 times faster. You would even think -- it's not even hard anymore. So, it's kinda that same belief that once you see it and it's true. It's like a 4-minute mile. Once you know that it can be done, everybody else starts running those 4-minute miles. You know, I've seen the guys have those dent in the universe companies and it's my turn!


Jaime: I love that! I think one other thing that i think is really interesting knowing that other people just like you have done it, too. It's like you said it's not some -- this is why I'm doing the show, right? Because everybody puts a million in upon the pedestal like oh, they're different. They're something special. They have super powers. Whatever it is. We get people here like "Fuck it! Do it anyway!" / that


Dan: / Yeah! Jaime: matters!
Dan: It's funny because we have those people and you meet them. They're really great, genuine, hopefully. They're like down to earth, super helpful people and it just allows you to believe that. I think that's the biggest thing is those people have different beliefs than you do. The beliefs are gonna drive that success and drive those goals and whatever. What you're doing on the show and a lot people that create content is just showing the world that there's a different way to think and different way to believe. That
has a positive impact on the business and I think that's what I do in Clarity. People call on the phone to
 
talk to those people, and then, they get advice from people who have done it. I think that's the most interesting that you can do is talk about your business in the context. That will change the world. I know for a fact. I've seen it happen. It's what happens in start-up communities like in Boulder, Colorado or New York or San Francisco. If we can't do it in physical approximate, we can do it over the phone. I think that will definitely leave a positive impact on the billion people.


Jaime: Is that how you -- like how do you change your beliefs going from -- seeing where you were when you first started to now? Like what's the typical way that you change your beliefs?


Dan: I mean, I just -- I learn. I try to figure out, you know. . . I think a lot of people don't challenge their beliefs, right? My Dad's beliefs was "Don't go too quick". Why? Right? I'm not saying it's bad advice. It's just that tell me why. I'm curious where that came from, why do you believe that? I think, you know, for
me, there's -- I'm doing it still. I work with a business coach because I know I still have beliefs that I wanna be here and I'm here. The person that creates this kind of business is not the same person here. They're funadamentally different people. Yes, I'm physically the same person but the way I think and the stuff I do, and how I manage my [dare] is different. You just have to, I think, you gotta challenge your beliefs because. . . There's a great question. Peter Thiel was the founder of Paypal and investor of Facebook. He likes to ask this question: "What do you believe that most people would disagree with you?" It is such a great question that really ask people like "What do you --" like "Do you gonna have an opinion? If so, why?" I'm just really sensitive now 'cause I learned over the years how important those beliefs are. So, if I ever that I can't or why do I think that I can't. What are the things that are true that cause me to think that? Are they based in reality or just personal gut opinions that have no reality whatsoever? So, you know? / I don't


Jaime: / Because, you're you. Dan: know.
Jaime: Yeah. We [shung] those things. We [shung] those things we don't now for certain 'cause society's gonna put all those things. Like you / said. . .


Dan: / They come [...].


Jaime: Is that reality? Probably not!


Dan: Just the fact -- it's like, you know, if you believe you can't, it's like "Where did that come from?" That's really interesting. That's a great conversation -- it's weird because the conversation that you have with yourself, you might wanna get a good friend or business coach or whoever to ask you that. But, just getting to the point where you start to question your beliefs is a really powerful thing that an entrepreneur can do at any stage.
 
Jaime: Mmm.. Well, I'm sorta thinking back at going -- a hundred million, that's huge! Oh, shoot! That's a piece that I need to look at, too, and get to know. But, just like you said that being aware and paying attention to what you're doing was just really cool. I love this! And you're so [...] -- oh and I'm not [...] and we're gonna not talk about that. It's / warm


Dan: / Yeah.


Jaime: where you are and my hands are freezing. It's cold here. So, I wrap up with this same question I always do this. What's one action that listeners can take this week to help move them forward towards their goal of a million?


Dan: I'm biased because it's my start-up. But even outside of that, I think the best thing you could do is find somebody that has achieved. So, if you're starting a company and you just want to get to a hundred thousand revenue, find that guy that recently did it in the last three years. There's a reason why you
wanna do it. Somebody has recently done it 'cause it's more revelant in context there. Or if you're trying to do a million-dollar company, same thing. I mean, we got tools like LinkedIn, Twitter, Corra. There's no reason you can't find those people. Reaching out to them, trust me. Every entrepreneur, for the most part their email is in firstname@company.com. So, straight off the bat, I'll save you some time there. If you email them saying "I'm doing this and I would love to get your advice on X, Y, and Z" Like 90% of the people are gonna respond and say "Sure!". They remember what it was like to be an entrepreneur. But show them that you're gonna be open and take that advice around with it. The best thing you can do once you get is to circle back in a month and say "Here's what I did". You don't have to agree with them. Just don't disagree with them while they're giving it to you. Go validate it. I think that is the most -- like pattern- matching, or modelling -- behaviour is the best thing you can do. If you have never done it before, then
the best thing you're gonna be half-right, you know, wrong half the time or right. The best thing you do is just find somebody who has done it and have blind faith, kinda trust what they're saying because they've done it. So, I can't see anything better than that to do this week. Take the action.


Jaime: So, I need to ask you then. On Clarity -- if I already go on Clarity, I could search and find someone who is exactly where I want to be that has done it recently?


Dan: Yeah! The thing is -- like title, CEO, service company, author. We have New York Times bestselling authors. We have olympic athletes. We have, you know, amazing content -- like CEO of [Brancha]. We have a thousand [BCs], a thousand [...] -- Things like a 15 hundred people have raised venture capital. There's people that are all over the stages like guys who have sold their company for over a hundred million to people just starting off. Like I said, find the people that recently got there because they're gonna be more open to help you. They are closer to you than you trying to create a mentorship relationship with somebody that's like Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban doesn't need another friend. I'm not sure running a company that's worth a hundred million a year, he's kinda -- that's where his head at. That's the kind of problem he deals with. You may not find your "How do I find my first customer" question, that is. So, yeah! Those people are on Clarity and they're super responsive and they want to take your call because they know why it was like to be in those shoes.


Jaime: I just wanna highlight. Now, I have not used Clarity, I think a lot people -- especially people that are listening -- really good at learning and listening but taking the steps to actually ask someone about where you are. Like I am a business coach, it is a very different thing giving someone specific advice on exactly what they should be doing rather than listening to a thousand podcast. Not that you shouldn't be listening
 
to my podcast but listening to a hundred podcast isn't the exact advice that you need at that time. I think what you have is amazing.


Dan: I actually. . . On that, I think you should have a business coach. You should have mentors and you should use a product like Clarity. Because, Clarity is about giving advice. You get three different perspective from different people around a certain problem. That's different than a mentor and that's totally different than a business coach. It's different advice -- like they all have a different approach, their content and learning. It's kinda like add that tool to you tool chest. It's just an extra thing that makes you much more potent as an entrepreneur.


Jaime: Mmm.. I like that! I have a business coach. I have a couple of mentors that are amazing. But now, I'm writing a book and there are probably some bestselling authors on your site.


Dan: Oh yeah! Brant Cooper, Erik Reese. They're still on Clarity!


Jaime: I'm trying to get Erik on the show. He said no. So, we'll have to see. Maybe I get him on the phone and I'm like recording this right now. No!


Dan: Yeah! Either way. He's an advisor to Clarity so I can make that, I think.


Jaime: How nice! Oh good! Thank you! I did not know that. Congratulations! He's awesome! / So, Dan: / Yeah, he is.
Jaime: thank you so much for coming on. I mean, we just talked about Clarity again but give the Web site because I know it's different from where we can / find where


Dan: / Clarity.fm


Jaime: you are online.


Dan: Clarity.fm -- because we are all about broadcasting rated advice. So, clarity.fm. You can find me at Twitter at @danmartell, two Ls for Martell. My email is dan@clarity.fm. Shoot me an email, short. My ADHD kicks in so it's gotta be short and focused but I will respond. Then, if you sign-up for Clarity, I'm available. Email from me right off the bat. Engage with me. I wanna be helpful. I hope you find somebody.
 
Jaime: You are amazing! Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it, Dan. You have an amazing, warm day!


Dan: Thanks Jaime!

Tags: business failure, business fears, business success, Dan Martell, fears, millionaire interview, Wealth Building

Categories: All, Business, Entrepreneurship, Fear, Millionaire Interviews

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