Coaching Session With Lain: Packages And Pricing

A slightly manic writer, speaker, and deep thinker – Lain Ehmann

How to “price anchor” your packages so people opt-in for the one you want most. Ways to “convince” your clients to stay with you on a retainer. How to figure out characteristics of your ideal client based on people you’ve done business in the past. Why you should stop selling yourself as a “technician” and how to properly position yourself as an expert with higher value.

LainEhmann.com

Hey! It’s Lain again.

It’s been a super-busy couple of months, and it’s so fun to look back on this coaching session. (A few people have asked me if I watch the sessions afterwards – NO! Way too embarrassing. But I do read the transcripts? there’s gold in there!) 🙂

Synopsis

This was our second coaching session, and Jaime really put me on the spot with regard to reaching out to previous clients to ask for testimonials and referrals. That has historically been difficult for me, as I feel like I’m bugging people to tell me they like my work. But I do realize how critical it is.

Right now, 90-plus percent of my work comes from referrals from clients. So I need to beef up that channel to make sure I’ve got a steady stream coming in! And I absolutely love the idea of tracking who refers whom – not just to say “Thanks,” but also because I can see who knows my ideal clients.

One other big goal is to quote more multi-month packages, rather than quoting each segment of my work separately. This will do a couple things: First, give me more “bang” for each client and two, let me lay out my work in the context of a whole package, rather than just a single deliverable. It’s kind of an “upsell,” which lets people see how I can create more impact for them.

Topics Covered

• Packages and pricing – how to turn my “custom” solutions into packages so we can at least start from SOMEWHERE when I talk to prospects
• Pitching multiple-month packages rather than single projects
• Referrals — tracking and asking!

 

Action Items

• Start proposing multi-month packages rather than single projects
• Get those outstanding referrals and testimonials from last month
• Create a profile of each of five ideal clients: Who they are, what I did for them, and what the results were.
• Get one new client in the next two weeks!

 

In Reflection?

I loved looking back at this session, because just by moving to a multi-month model has had a HUGE impact on my revenue! I’ve also reached out to people and received some great testimonials. (Although I will admit I haven’t posted them on my website yet – bad Lain!).

The packages are still a little sketchy as each of my clients seems to want/need something totally different? but I hope that over time I’ll start seeing more and more similarities, and honing in on what I enjoy doing most, and what brings the most value to my clients.

Thanks for listening!

 

Thanks so much for listening!

Lain Series

Part1 – Coaching Session With Lain: Goals And Confidence Levels
Part2 – Coaching Session With Lain: Packages And Pricing
Part3 – Coaching Session With Lain: Selling Like A Pro
Part4 – Coaching Session With Lain: Her Biggest Month EVER
Part5 – Coaching Session with Lain: On-boarding a Team Member

Transcript: Download

Jaime:	Hey, Lane, ready for session number two?

Lane:	I am.

Jaime:	Better be.

	I know I sent your action items from last time, so we're definitely gonna go over those, but do you have anything? Can you give me a quick little update on where we're at so far?

[00:02:00]
Lane:	I have been working on the packages, as you mentioned, for the action item. That was one of my action items, to look at packages so I can cut down on the number of actual projects, bundling things together, so that's great. Also, getting in touch with some people about referrals or references. I haven't been so good about the referrals, 'cause I've been so crazy busy that I've been hesitant to ask people for referrals.

Jaime:	Hide my face on that one, right?

Lane:	I see, I see. Yes, yes.

[00:02:30]
Jaime:	
Oh, you know? The whole sales and goals that we're all focusing on for the thing? I totally get it. I totally understand. I hear it all the time, and it happens to me too, so I can't really say anything. But you're like, oh, I'm so busy. Oh wait.

Lane:	Until you're not, right?

Jaime:	Yep. Then you're like, oh yep, no, nothing. Okay great, I should go hustle, hustle, hustle. We talked about this before. Hustle, hustle, hustle, and you go up and you're like, oh I'm so busy! Then nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. Right? That's what we're trying to get out of in general. That's why we care about the 4K recurring.


[00:03:00]	So we'll definitely talk about the packages. Did you call yourself a consultant yet this week? Have you-

Lane:	I have been saying that. It's weird because it's like saying you're a coach sometimes. People think it means you can't get a real job.

Jaime:	I feel like coaches who can't get a real job ... Consultant at least sounds better.

	No, I never wanted to call myself a coach. I thought it was dumb. So I totally get that you're right there. You can also say strategist.

Lane:	I like that better, because it seems like it's kinda, oh-

Jaime:	Yeah. You just want to get away from copywriter.

[00:03:30]
Lane:	Right.

Jaime:	Imagine you are the head of the company or the head strategist or whatever it is. There are copywriters, there are copywriters below you, there's a this person below you, there's a designer, there's a this, there's a that. Think of it that way. Copywriters are the lifeblood of many, many businesses and a lot of people don't hire them, as they should. That being said, we put them lower on the trajectory. We want to make sure you're not calling yourself that.

[00:04:00]	That means, when you think of yourself, and you say strategist, don't say strategist and copywriter.

Lane:	Okay. Gotcha.

Jaime:	Looking at the rest of your action items, I know you were gonna try and get more testimonials. I've created a little box area, whatever it is, so that way we can keep looking at this. Did you have a chance to do that?

Lane:	Yeah, I did. I have an email folder that I set up. So I've got that.

Jaime:
[00:04:30]	Okay. I might even boomerang some of them to come back randomly, so you can be like, oh people like me.

Lane:	I'll be emailing people back, and they'll be like, what are you talking about?

Jaime:	Thank you, send me more.

	Yes, but it's one of those things where it needs to be ingrained in your brain. The more we've got them, the better. We forget about testimonials and how awesome you are sometimes. I really appreciate that.

	We were saying five clients slash referrals. How many did you actually do?

Lane:	Four, asking for testimonials to-

Jaime:	Oh no, so you didn't have any?

Lane:	Two.

[00:05:00]
Jaime:	Okay. Do you want me to make you sing? Remember how that was going last time?

Lane:	Oh no, that's more painful for other people. I'll sing anytime, ask my kids.

Jaime:	Our goal was five. We got two. I get your brain. It might be like, well, I haven't flushed out the packages, and I don't want to ask for a referral, and maybe I'll just wait on that, 'cause [crosstalk 00:05:19].

Lane:	Yeah, that's exactly what I do.

Jaime:	Don't. I know what everyone does. Let's not do that, okay? Deal?

Lane:	All right, deal. High five.

[00:05:30]
Jaime:	
I get it though. I have an entrepreneur brain also, and I know what it does, and this is how I can counteract it on everyone else.

	That being said, that's good. 'Cause now we can contact more this week. But we'll know what the packages are next time, and it'll be a little bit easier anyway. Our action item again is five. Did you ask for any referral from those two, or nothing yet?

Lane:
[00:06:00]	Nothing yet. One of them had actually given me a referral already, and the other one never answered so I didn't get to ask for anything.

Jaime:	Okay, so the testimonials sent two emails.

Lane:	One was a text.

Jaime:	Somebody already sent you a testimonial? They sent you a testimonial, but they had already sent you a referral previously?

Lane:	No, they sent me a referral, and I was contacting for a testimonial.

Jaime:	Killer. And they did?

Lane:	Yes. He said, let me know what you want me to say.

Jaime:	You're the copywriter.

Lane:	Exactly, exactly.

[00:06:30]
Jaime:	Once he sends the testimonial, be like, oh my gosh, I love how mch this means, and thank you so much. That referral was fantastic. If you have anyone else that you know of that you can refer, I'd be forever grateful, or whatever language you want to use. Okay?

Lane:	Okay.

Jaime:	Because the people that send a testimonial are way more likely to send more.

[00:07:00]	I'm writing down, we're gonna ask for five more testimonials and then referrals from those, in a very similar fashion. Can we do five more?

Lane:	Yes, we can.

Jaime:	What happens if we don't?

Lane:	What happens if we don't? I don't know, I don't know.

Jaime:	This video's gonna go live, so do you want me to answer?

Lane:	I know, yeah, you'll have to embarrass me. I'm kind of hard to embarrass, so you'll really have to-

Jaime:	I know, that's why I went, hm. That's why I wanted you to pick something.

[00:07:30]	All right, we'll talk about this after, but I really want you to have a go-to that you really, really, really, really don't want to do.

Lane:	Make me call people on the phone.

Jaime:	Okay.

Lane:	Isn't that funny? It's hard to embarrass me, but I hate calling people on the phone.

Jaime:	That bad, really?

Lane:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Okay. I'm gonna make you do it live, while we're talking.

Lane:	Yeah! That would be a good one.

Jaime:	Yep, you're welcome. That's gonna be awesome.

Lane:	My goodness.

Jaime:	I'll judge you the whole time, how's that? You're doing it wrongly! No, I'm kidding.

[00:08:00]
Lane:	You know me so well.

Jaime:	I do. Words of affirmation.

	So that is gonna be the thing. If we do not do ... Which means, we want five testimonials, ideally. We're gonna send five emails, but if nobody responds to you, girl, you have to email more.

Lane:	Okay.

Jaime:[00:08:30]	What I care about most is that you're taking five actions, but if we just do five every single week, its just gonna take us forever to get a bunch of 'em if they don't respond. I care about the outcome also. Ideally, we're warming these people up and going, oh my gosh, Lane is amazing! And then asking for the referrals, and that's what we need anyway.

[00:09:00]	Let's talk about pricing, then, 'cause like you said, if that starts to get a little fuzzy, you don't want to have any prospecting calls 'cause you don't know what to sell. What I was asking you to do last time was figure out what can we sell for $4000 recurring, so that way we're all set, they feel lots of value, and everybody's happy in the world.

	What did you come up with so far?

Lane:[00:09:30]	Well, the recurring part is the tough part, because I work with a lot of people who are launching things. I'll do a landing page or a sales page or an email sequence. Then it gets hard to say, okay, what comes after that? For instance, Jason, who we both know, helped him launch one of his products. Eventually, several months later, wanted to create an evergreen funnel for that. But it's not something that happens every single month.

	I'm at a loss as to how to make it something that could be recurring.

Jaime:	It might not necessarily be doing the exact same thing every single month. It might be three to six month engagement of this is how we do it. Does that make sense?

[00:10:00]
Lane:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Please don't think it's like, I have to write 1700 emails for $4000 each month. It's what is the package that they get, so that way, when they buy it, they're going, I'm buying it at six months. It's $4000 a month, which is $24,000 for the entire time. This is the outcome.

	'Cause a lot of stuff you work on takes time, and people don't give you enough time anyway. They're doing these launches and they're like, Lane, I need this right now.

[00:10:30]
Lane:	That's kind of the spot that I've carved out for myself, which in some ways is great, 'cause I can do things very quick.

Jaime:	You're good at it, yep.

Lane:	The pain is so high that they're just like, yeah, how much is it? There's no negotiation, just boom. It's done. There's not a lot of time for back and forth, which I like also.

Jaime:[00:11:00]	I'm not saying you cannot sell those. I'm saying our main goal is to sell ones that are preplanned and recurring so you don't have to worry about cashflow. Because those are what's hard.

Lane:	I know you've worked with marketing specialists and Facebook people and funnel people. Is that what most people do? They do a three month package, or it's a six month package. I just have never worked with people like that other than coaches. I'm not sure how to set it up and what's expected.

Jaime:[00:11:30]	It depends. For example, a lot of Facebook people will do a at least three month commitment, because they need to have results also, and it takes a while to warm up. Especially learning who the avatar is, that takes a little bit of time. It depends. They'll either do an upfront. That's higher charge, like $3000 to get you in our system and you have to pay a monthly recurring, and you have to commit to spending a certain amount of money on ads. Or they'll even do six months. That way they can figure out that.


[00:12:00]	Some don't do the upfront extra. They just say, as long as you sign up for six months, you just go the whole way. So something like that. There's other ones that are more project based. I just had one of my digital clients, they have a web development slash digital marketing company and they do a couple million a year. Their price rates are a lot higher, like $60,000 a month, $40,000 a month for some of this stuff, but it's the same thing. They work on a project, a longer-type project basis.


[00:12:30]	We're like, oh, if we're gonna do the entire website and redo everything ... They actually did my website, too, by the way. If they're gonna do everything, what does that look like and how long is it gonna take and what do we break up? That way we're breaking up, let's say, three months in, you're actually working a lot more. I'm just giving an example of [crosstalk 00:12:42] stuff. You're like, oh my gosh, we're launching! We have to get everything! Everyone works a lot more, but they pay the same retainer, quote unquote, every month. You're not going, this month it costs more. There's none of that. Or you might even have a deposit, and then a middle, and then an end.

[00:13:00]	But I want you to know that you have money coming in. Make sense?

Lane:	Mm-hmm (affirmative). It does. I'm trying to think how I can position that-

Jaime:	So this is what we're gonna do for you. It's different for you, because you have so many avenues. When you do proposals in general, I want you to have more of a template of a proposal. Which bucket do they fit in?

[00:13:30]	Think of it like Ask, for Ryan Levesque, because while everybody thinks they're a unique snowflake, most people need very similar things, the people that you're working with, specifically. You can do a lot more than just those specific things that they normally ask you for, but in general, when you're looking at that, you're like, okay. So see if you can find three different buckets, potentially four, but ideally, mostly three.

[00:14:00]	You could even name them. I wouldn't name it this, 'cause I'm not a good copywriter. You would be much better at this. But like, the beginner package. This is somebody that doesn't even have a sales page yet and blah blah blah blah blah, and this is what it looks like, and this is what you get for this package. If that's your bucket. Your bucket, I think, is people paying for, and they already have some stuff, and they're dealing with some other stuff.

[00:14:30]	Number two is the one that you want everybody to join. I just did an interview with Justin Krane, who when this interview comes out is gonna already be published and probably a couple weeks old anyway, but I'll preempt it and send it to you. 'Cause he's a finance guy, and he talked all about pricing. What you want to do is you want to make the middle one so amazing that you want people to chose that one.

Lane:	Right, and the other two are just for positioning.

Jaime:[00:15:30]	Exactly. The other one's price anchor, as far as whatever the VIP, the high level, this is amazing. It's like, we do everything for you, kind of a thing. The way he framed it, and everybody should listen to that interview anyway, but the way he framed it was really interesting. He was like, I had a woman that sold baby blankets, and I was like, okay. He's like, and they decided to add in a quilt or something, or sold quilts. They decided to throw in a baby blanket with it for the middle one. He goes, we only made it two dollars more. The first one is just a quilt for like 50 bucks. The next one is a quilt plus a baby blanket for $52. You're like, well why would I buy the first one? And then I went, why would you do that? That's not a lot of net. He answered that question which was really interesting, too. What you want to do is you just want them to have a little bit more bang for their buck, idealLy a little bit longer of an engagement also.

	But this is where the bucketing-type thing has to fit in. I know, like we were saying, they might need this, and they might need that. I'm not saying you can't tweak packages based on what people are doing, but you want them to make it very simple to understand what they're buying, and then you go, we can just tweak it. If you already have three emails, I'll just tweak those emails and give you an extra one, or something like that for that package.


[00:16:00]	When we make it like that instead of, and then I can do this, and then I can do this, and then I can do this, and I can do this, and I can do this. That's where it gets a little crazy.

	What I meant, with the proposal side, is when you're sending the proposal, you're just sort of moving in the template that you already have in general. Does that make sense?

Lane:[00:16:30]	So when I'm talking to a prospect, getting a sense of, okay where are they? What are they gonna need? Somebody who maybe the Facebook ad contact that I have refers me may be further along, and they're looking at refining and increasing conversion, whereas somebody in that middle bucket may have nothing. They've got a website, they've got a product, but there's nothing connecting it all.

Jaime:	Let's actually talk about that. What are some characteristics of your ideal? We only want ideal clients. Of your ideal clients.

Lane:	Well, let's talk about Jason, 'cause he is totally my ideal client and we both know him. He'll be blushing right now anyways.

Jaime:	I want more than just him. I want to know what is typical for you doing for someone like him. What did you do for him specifically?

[00:17:00]
Lane:[00:17:30]	
I took a course that he had already sent through beta. He had a sales page, he had some emails that he was working with, he knew his avatar very, very clearly, and there was a lot of upside potential. He had a huge email list that we just needed to tap into. He had all the research done. While I enjoy doing research, it's much easier if somebody says, here. Make sense of this. It gives me buckets- not buckets. That's the wrong word, 'cause we're using buckets elsewhere. But just throws a bunch of stuff at me, and then I can look for those patterns and connections.

	For instance, and I won't get into details here, but one of the things I noticed when he sent me over ... He had asked people, why did you sign up for this? What did you get most? There were some connections in terms of their past careers that he hadn't noticed. He had the information, but he hadn't dug into it the same way I did. So that's gonna help him with his Facebook advertising. Also there were a lot-

[00:18:00]
Jaime:	Okay, copywriting and conversion. With the outcome that you're getting from him by going through and figuring out sales page and figure out the avatar, the hard thing is that the figuring out the avatar and stuff like that is so foundational. People are just like, oh, I don't want to pay Lane for that. That's just her getting up to speed. Yet that's where all the little amazing things happen.

[00:18:30]	To me, I would add that. You're gonna have to add that into every single one of them anyway. You can call it whatever you want, whether it be the foundational pieces or low hanging fruit or whatever you do for those pieces. That's gonna be, I'm assuming, in every package, correct?

Lane:	Yes. I have to. I don't really-

Jaime:	You have to do a lot more work, though, occasionally, if they don't have all that for you. How often do they have that for you?

Lane:[00:19:00]	My ideal client has some sense of that. They've got an audience they're working with. I just was referred another client who signed a contract. We're gonna be starting soon. It's the same situation. He's got this great business, and there's huge potential because he built it piecemeal as he went along. Now he wants to connect those pieces. He has a good intuitive sense, but through a conversation with him, I can pick out some more of those details.

Jaime:[00:19:30]	So your secret sauce is that. That's hard to sell on a package, so we're gonna try and make it a little bit more brass tacks and results-oriented. For that guy, for example, I'm trying to figure out of a commonality between them that we can actually set up. Do you know, with [phoenetic 00:19:36] Zertrel and the way that they have their plans set up, they're like, oh are you a beginner? You only need five hours a month. Or do you need 20 hours a month, or do you need this? Is there anything like email list size that [crosstalk 00:19:47] them?

Lane:[00:20:00]	It's very different, because his is more cyclical, people who are getting ready to take a certain test. Once they pass that test, they have no need for his service anymore, for ten years when they have to ...

Jaime:	How big is his email list, though, even though it's like that?

Lane:[00:20:30]	3000, 4000 I think. Whereas Jason's is much, much larger than that, as you know, but he'd never really tapped into it. There's no commonality in the list size between those two, but they're both ... It seems to me that I'm trying to get at some things that are unique about the people. It's very niched, typically. It's not just broad-based internet marketing, for instance, or broad-based health and fitness. They're in this really tiny niche, and you're like, wow. You're making a business out of that? That is so cool.

Jaime:	Exactly. I have the weirdest things. Okay, but we can't be like, you have to have a weird niche. I only work in organic chemistry. That's all I do.

Lane:	What is actually ... [inaudible 00:20:57]

[00:21:00]
Jaime:	I have a client in organic chemistry, so that's why I said that.

Lane:[00:21:30]	One thing I think the person that Jason referred me to, because Jason's niche is more specialized I guess you could say, with some specific jargon and terminology and things like that, he referred me to somebody else who has a very similar situation where other copywriters ... I'm not a copywriter, of course. I'm a strategist. But hadn't been able to work with her because they couldn't ... It was just like, this is too technical for me. I am very comfortable getting into that.

Jaime:[00:22:00]	This is why I refer you also, just so you know. Because I do have weird, niche clients, where I'm like, there is no copywriter that specializes in that thing. Because you do your foundational work and you're up for the challenge of really figuring out who these people are, you do a good job at that. Which I would make sure is in this strategy side, or this USP side, a lot. You like the challenge of figuring that out. Because it's way easier for me to go, oh I have a weirdo client that there's no way I can just find a health and fitness copywriter, or not even copywriter but agency or strategist or whatever. There's a thousand health coaches that will help you with your business.

[00:22:30]	You take on the weirdest ... I am allowed to send you the weirdest things, because you can handle it, whereas I don't know very many other people that are because everybody else is niched somewhere else. I would either niche yourself in a handful of things or just like, I go down the tech path or I go down the whatever it is, so that way it's easier for people to refer you, also.

[00:23:00]	We had a client call when one of the Masterminds, and it was like, can't just a regular web developer. You really need to go to niche, because then you can find where these people are. If we are in tech, and you go out, and you're like, oh, course builders for tech. So much easier to find those people. You can speak their language, so then they love you, if we're going out and prospecting.

[00:23:30]	That being said, that's a little bit of a separate trajectory for what we're talking about right now. As far as the packages go, just listening to what you said, everybody already has stuff. They already have a product, they've already been selling it. Is there any either price point that's common or how many they've sold? I know Jason had sold in the beta, but he sold a lot in the beta, which is very impressive. Does somebody need to have made quite a bit of money from a program before they actually hire you?

Lane:[00:24:00]	I would say so, because if they're not sure how it's going to sell, then my price point will turn them off. They have to know, okay, jeez, if Lane can just increase the conversion X percent, like we were talking about last call, then I've paid for myself ten times over. They do need to have sold some. I don't know what that magic number is.

Jaime:[00:24:30]	What I'm gonna have you do for actions is go through your client list, ideal client list, of course, and figure out some of the commonalities. How much did they sell before? If they did a launch, how big was their launch? Because we were just saying, $4000 a month for six months, or whatever it is, they need to have 24 grand. It's not like they're gonna be somebody that's sold $5000 worth of product. That's not even close to who we're looking for. But that also means that when we're talking about your packages, you need to make sure you have a package that appeals for those people, instead of going, oh, this is for this person way over here, and this is for this person way over here. They all need to align.

[00:25:00]	We're looking for commonalities between your ideal clients and making packages that show them where they are. Ideally, we want them to pick the middle one.

[00:25:30]	That being said, if there is, and we're gonna have to come back on some of this, I have a feeling, but if the company does about this much money either in the project program, whatever it is, or if you can see ... Are they making a certain percentage of revenue every year?

Lane:	I would say that they're all solid six figures, that it's not somebody who's trying to break 100K. It's people who are more like, getting close to 500K if not there already and they know, there's all these pieces of their business that aren't firing together. They know, jeez, if I could just align this stuff, it would explode.

[00:26:00]
Jaime:	Perfect. If they're making that much, when you go in, are you dealing with ... 'Cause for people that are making about that much in general, they usually have more than one product that they sell. Are you going in as a whole and looking at everything, or are they coming to you and going, I have a product and I need your help with this one thing?

[00:26:30]
Lane:	In Jason's case, it was one particular product that he had. In other cases, we'll start with one and then they may have me move over to other ones, as well, which is actually what I like. Because I like us testing each other out and making sure that we work well together and that it's going smoothly, because as much as I want them to be happy with me, I want them to be people that I don't mind getting emails from.

Jaime:[00:27:00]	This is the hard piece, 'cause normally, when you sell somebody, when the pain is greater, you want to sell them the longer package. That does make if difficult, because you're like, oh wait. What did I just sign myself up for? Instead of necessarily shying away from that, 'cause you get along with lots of people, which is [crosstalk 00:27:08].

[00:27:30]	Instead of shying away from that, you can just have a 30-day check in, where you actually check in with them and go, you can tell them preemptively, when they sign up for six months, be like, just so you know, it is six months 'cause that's how I know I can see results. If after 30 days, neither of us are feeling it, I'll check in with you and I'll be like, hey are you feeling this? Totally fine with not necessarily moving this forward. We're just gonna wrap up that one piece, and then we'll move on, how's that?

	Then we're getting rid of the non-ideal clients, ideally. But then you have the option.

Lane:	I like that.

Jaime:[00:28:00]	What I don't like for you is you're so good at saying yes to little things and then have a way harder time to upsell later. You're like, they love me. Oh shoot, I gave them a really fast deal, really, really fast, and we just did it really cheap 'cause ... Not that we're making you cheap. But you would go, it's only three days' worth of things, and then it's done. So when they come back to you, they're like, oh Lane was amazing, and now I just want three more of those things. That's not how we do this.

	You need to be able to go in and really plan out in order for them to see really big results anyway. It's good for everyone.

Lane:	I like that. I think that's great because I would say that in all the clients I've worked with, there have been multiple projects that we could've started with. That would actually be great.

[00:29:00]	Say, here's my proposal for the next three, four, five, six months, whatever that is, and here's what I want to do. We're gonna start with this, 'cause this piece is foundational to my understanding of your business. This is really where we're gonna get some great return very quickly, and I want you to have that so you know I'm paying for myself. I also want to really come up to speed on your business. After that first piece is over, which I estimate is gonna be about 30 days, we'll do that check in and just make sure that, like you said, that we're feelin' it, that this is going as we expected. It's our escape clause. If it's not working for you, whatever. Both of us have that opportunity to touch base and make sure we want to keep moving forward. I'm sure you're gonna be delighted, because I want to make you happy. Then from there, I'm gonna go into months two, three, four, which are gonna be these next pieces that are really gonna exponentially explode what we did in that first month.

[00:29:30]
Jaime:	
I agree. That's exactly what I do in my coaching. Everybody that pays you a lot of money in the first month is like, when am I gonna get this back? I tell everybody, I go, we go short term, low-hanging fruit and long term this. We're pre-planning for all of that. You can do the exact same thing. That way, you can get rid of all the ones that aren't good, in a nice, happy, easy way.

Lane:	When I do that, is it the same cost every month, then?

[00:30:00]
Jaime:	
The way you split it up is the same cost, so it's very predictable. You can pay all upfront, too, though. You can also give a discount for paying upfront, which [crosstalk 00:30:03] for you.

	One other quick question. I'm going through and trying to figure out what is this, what are these separations? Because I don't want just a list of things. This is package one. It's special because of nothing. This is package number two.

Lane:	Don't think that.

Jaime:
[00:30:30]	I know. What I'm trying to do is figure out what your typical avatar would care about and delineate based on that. I'm gonna throw this out there. Could be totally off, but could you have, for the person that's trying to hit 500K, package one is like, we just go over one product. All we do is a sales page and three emails, or whatever the thing is. Ideally, we want it to be a longer package, but it's one product. You can do an after-the-fact check the conversions and do a couple tweaks so it's a little bit longer of a project.

[00:31:00]	Number two would be like one funnel, which is more. It's more than just the product, it's we have the loss-leader, or whatever the heck you want to say. We have the whole funnel piece or the whole business. So if they have more than one funnel, and that's sort of the VIP, we go all in, we flush out everything for you.


[00:31:30]	Most of the time, with 500 thousand-ish as what they're doing for revenue, they probably have more than one funnel, either because they had a launch and they're like, this is the launch one and this is the this. You hopefully will get people on the whole business side that can actually have you flush out a lot more. That would be a lot. But most people would pick the whole funnel, because the funnel's actually what's gonna deliver the cash in the end and warm people up enough.

[00:32:00]	Is that enough, though? Is that something that's similar ... I'm just throwing it out there.

Lane:[00:32:30]	I'm thinking, I think it is. I think the place where it gets challenging is sometimes the funnel might have several different lead magnets to pull in that product or to pull in that traffic. Then how do I distinguish? If they've got, I've got five reports, or I've got three free video training series and I've got one email course, and I've got a webinar that I do every Wednesday night, and they all drive to the same landing page, how do I ... 'Cause that's much more complex.

Jaime:	You would include whatever that package includes. If they want additional, it would be an [crosstalk 00:32:37].

Lane:	So I could say one lead source, one traffic source, one lead magnet, the landing opt-in page, the email sequence, duh duh duh duh duh.

Jaime:	If they say whole business, that's whatever you got, I'm gonna go over.

Lane:
[00:33:00]	I can also say that up to X separate product funnels, blah blah blah blah, because if it's the whole business, your business is gonna be very different from client B's business.

Jaime:	What I would do on the whole business is list things out. It's gonna be different, most likely. Every business is a little bit different. They might be all over the place.



[00:33:30]	But the point of the whole business one is that you are there for them. It's VIP, white glove kind of stuff, and the price point will reflect that. What most people will do, if we were to set it up like this ... But again I want you to sleep on it and make sure, you know what I mean?

Lane:	Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jaime:	And we'll flush some of those pieces out and we'll throw some people that you want through this. We'll see if that even works.

	But what we want for the white glove side is really rare. We make the price point a lot higher. You can say, I go through your whole entire business. If you have three funnels, we go through all three funnels. If you have a bunch of random lead magnets that don't lead anywhere, we do full assessments on those, figure out which ones are better, which ones aren't. You know what I mean?

[00:34:00]	They're like, oh, it's white glove. Lane takes care of me. It could be a lot, and you can, of course, when you're going through whatever the price point it, it has to be high enough so that if they throw five more things at the end, you don't have to go, I charge more for that. The price point has to be high enough so that way it is literally white glove service, where you're like, I am taking care of you.



[00:34:30]	I [inaudible 00:34:22] person anyway, but I know how annoyed you get at the end, where if you're like, oh wait. They just threw in this, ah! I have to ask for more money. That makes you more uncomfortable. The number of that whole business thing has to be high enough for them to be able to throw something at you and you to be okay with it. Deal? So everybody's happy in the end.

	But that's also where the anchor is. If you're like, that's $40,000, or 50, or whatever it is, and yes we can break that up into whatever the monthly payment is that you think you'll be doing every month or something like that, that's totally fine, too.

	Does that make sense?

Lane:	Yes.

[00:35:00]
Jaime:	
But it's really there for an anchor also, because most of the time people will go, if I haven't hired Lane for anything, I'm not gonna hire her for the whole business thing, because I need to know that she's gonna be good. But the one product is kinda little and wimpy. So most likely, they will pick the one funnel, 'cause that's what people are normally, typically hiring you for right now, is that right?

Lane:	Yep.

[00:35:30]
Jaime:	
Let's run a couple people. Give me a list of five names, just their first names, five first names of your ideal clients that you've adored working with and you've helped them and they've gotten lots of really amazing results.

Lane:	Okay. Jason is one. I might have to go with first initials, 'cause some of these people have very unusual first names. They're all just weird. No, I'm just kidding. Jason's one, definitely. You want me to just list them out now?

Jaime:	Yep, just so I can go through and we're gonna ...

Lane:	Karen is one.

[00:36:00]
Jaime:	
Karen, good job so far.

Lane:	It's not the Karen you- Well, actually you do know this Karen.

Jaime:	I know everyone, Lane. I'm not surprised.

Lane:	You do know everybody. I'm trying to think of those that fit this-

Jaime:	No, no. I don't want you to do that. I want you to just come up with five that you really adored working with that you got them really high value.

Lane:	Okay, Scott. You do know everybody, don't you?

Jaime:	I just do referrals to you all the time. I think that's it.

[00:36:30]
Lane:	
Then we have another Jason. I need one more. Let me look at my list here. People I have been working with who I'd love to work with again. Let's go with, we're just gonna use the initial A on this one.

Jaime:
[00:37:00]	Perfect. When we look at Jason, the first one, that we were talking about before, he would totally do a funnel, 'cause you worked on the lead magnet to everything. He would actually be sold into that anyway, even though he came to you going, can you just change some copy on my email stuff and my sales page. Because that's how people think of it when they don't know it. They're like, can you just tweak one of these and make it better?

	So what about Karen?

Lane:
[00:37:30]	In fact, too, the funnel would work really well with her. Let me ask you a question. There's people who have an existing product and that I'm making better, and then there's ones that I'm creating.

Jaime:	Oh, you're helping create a product?

Lane:	Well, not create the product, sorry. They've got a product and it's just, they just happen to mention it every once in a while. There's no traffic coming directly to them, there's no current landing page, or they're launching a new product and they want me to create this.

[00:38:00]
Jaime:	
Yep. So there's something that exists where the whole funnel exists that you're operating?

Lane:	Right, revision.

Jaime:	The other one is that we don't even have the funnel and we need you to create this.

Lane:	Right, optimizing versus creating.

Jaime:	Okay, so when you're doing this, 'cause you're doing proposals most likely anyway, you might need to put that in there. 'Cause optimizing, it's still almost the same amount of work, by the way.

Lane:	It is.

Jaime:
[00:38:30]	That's the thing that sucks, is that people will be like, look I have this, and you're like, great. That's crap.

Lane:	Throw that all away!

Jaime:	I could just start it again. That being said, they feel like they have something more. They're like, yes, no, I do, please. But hopefully they have data, so it will actually be easier for-

Lane:	Yeah it is. Open rates, it gives me a clear place to start into ... 'Cause every client and their audiences are a little bit different. I can use my best judgment, but then sometimes it's the exact opposite.

Jaime:
[00:39:00]	What I would do, in that case, 'cause that's a great question, is we'd still have package one, and we can name these of course, but package one would still be one product. Package two would be optimizing your funnel. Package three is white glove for the people that we're optimizing. For the people that are brand new, you write, creating.



[00:39:30]	I don't know personally what you're price point difference will be on those, but you'll know after you talk to them on the sales call where it is. It still fits within the three, because maybe they want you to just optimize one product or optimize that, you know what I mean? Instead of helping them create it.

	You're just gonna tweak that language on your proposal when you go over it, before you give it to them. Does that make sense?

Lane:
[00:40:00]	Yeah. So Jason definitely would fit there. Karen ... I think she could fit there. What I'm doing or her now is more of one, but there's potential, like she's got a series of products coming out over the course of the year.

Jaime:	Is she doing a one product? Or does she still fit into a package [crosstalk 00:40:05]?

Lane:	She is doing a one product, but that's because I sold it like that. I actually proposed a bunch of things and said, let's start here. But with this new conversation, I would say the same thing, propose the same thing, but just get her commitment with that 30-day evaluation.

Jaime:
[00:40:30]	Of course we have to map out what a typical funnel is, because it could be crazy. I've seen the, yeah, if they don't do this, and if they do take this, and blah blah blah. That's where it can get a little bit sticky, but we'll figure that out.

	What about Scott? Or did we already talk about Scott?

Lane:	No, we didn't, and he was one of my first clients. It was almost like the white glove, VIP, but it would vary from month to month. I didn't charge him white glove ... I don't know [crosstalk 00:40:58].

[00:41:00]
Jaime:	
This is awesome, 'cause he had faith in you at the beginning. Great.

Lane:	Yes, exactly.

Jaime:	If we were to sell him again, at that same thing, knowing what you know now and how much you should charge, which package would he have fit in?

Lane:	I would convince him of number two.

Jaime:	I know him and his business very well. Looking at that in general, he got more bang for his buck because you were at the beginning as far as the white glove service goes.

Lane:	Definitely, definitely.

[00:41:30]
Jaime:	
But if he were picking, he would pick that, too.

Lane:	Right, I think so.

Jaime:	But it would still give him a lot of amazingness. It's not like we can't have upsells later, so that's the other thing. Once you sell them into the package that is recurring, as you're going through, you can always say, by the way, if you want me to do anything extra, you let me know. Here's my extra add-on services. While working on this, we might as well do this. It's only this much extra.

Lane:	Exactly, like the lead [crosstalk 00:41:55].

[00:42:00]
Jaime:	
So when you do an add on, what's great in people's brains is that they forget about the regular number that they're already paying you. If they are paying you three or $4000 a month, and you're like, oh, it's only an extra 500 bucks to be able to do this, they're like oh, it's only $500. You're like, oh wait, it's $4500. But in everybody's brain, you're getting more value for that.

	Your upsells don't even have to be a lot of money usually, because you don't have to go out and do sales and prospecting for them either, right?

Lane:	Right.

[00:42:30]
Jaime:	
This is also where you could partner one of my other clients in the Mastermind group is doing a great job, 'cause she has amazing clients that need so many things, as you know. Of course, they don't trust anybody, so she's actually referring SEO people. She's like, [crosstalk 00:42:41], they're doing the work, I'm facilitating through me, and we've got a full package instead of it just being [crosstalk 00:42:49]. Make sense?

Lane:	Yes. Definitely.

Jaime:
[00:43:00]	Again, when you're in there, for one funnel, 'cause that's probably what you're selling, you're debriefing the whole rest, you're assessing the whole rest of everything else and be like, oh. You know why you don't have a lot of traffic is because you're website, you're not getting any of that. Or whatever it is. Be like, I know someone for that. Or, if you want to actually set it up under your name, you could do that, too.

	Again, it's not like this selling is over, 'cause once they love you and they trust you, then they trust the other things that you could do for them also.

	What about the other Jason?

[00:43:30]
Lane:	
I think there would be the potential for number two, but we didn't go there. I worked on a very specific, tight turnaround lead gen piece for him. It just didn't go any further than that, but he was great to work with.

Jaime:	Get part of the funnel.

Lane:	Yeah. I think we could look at some other pieces.

Jaime:

[00:44:00]	That's also where, when you sell them the funnel, you can go, well the first 30 days, we'll do that first fast lead magnet and make you happy and go. But then you do have to make sure that, on the sale part, you're convincing them for the rest of it. Not convincing. We want them to want you, not like, oh you should do this now. You know what I mean.

Lane:	Yep.

Jaime:	All right, what about A?

Lane:	A, again, I sold him one, but that's because I wanted it to be an easy entry, like a no-brainer. Like, let's do this to test it out. But I think it's really two, definitely.

Jaime:
[00:44:30]	The great thing about this, too, is you can down-sell. If they're going and looking at it, they're like, that's a lot for one funnel. I don't have the cash flow, or I don't have the whatever, you can really push them into the other package. Say, you could be like, oh, well, why don't we do this? We'll do the one product. I will redo the sales page and just check these things and whatever the package is. If when we're in it, you're like, you know what, I want to do all of it, we can just upgrade to the other one without any changeover. But what I want you to know is I want you to trust me and let's get started.

[00:45:00]	Talk them into a down-sell, also.

	When I sell my coaching, and I'm pretty honest about this either way, if I think they're way better off for full time, I will definitely try and sell them full time and not mention the other options at first. Then, if they're like, oh! 'Cause I think you've heard me say, did I give you a heart attack? That similar technique. Then I'll go to the 1500, or for the part-time package, which is actually not 1500 anymore, that's hilarious. Make sure I say the new prices.

[00:45:30]	Thankfully, I get all of the business numbers before I ... Everything is written down, so I don't have to skirt around anything. You can ask those questions too, of course. But I know if they're not gonna be a good fit for a full time. There's no point in me charging way more for when I think this is the best bang for their buck, so I will only offer that.

[00:46:00]	For you, because we might even be able to see some of this stuff without a proposal, if we get the packages down pat. That's kind of what I want, ideally. You can do this on the fly. It's a one sales appointment close instead of two.

Lane:	Versus a proposal and let's get back on the phone again. Yep.

Jaime:

[00:46:30]	If we can do that, that would be ideal. If we can't, that's okay. Most companies that are doing actual funnels usually take some sort of proposal side, but that's just because we all feel like special snowflakes. We want it to be like, oh no, but this is for me, and I already have three pieces, and blah blah blah. That's where you'd go through the thing with them and be like, okay. This is what I typically sell, and if [crosstalk 00:46:38] this means this for you, and this means this for you, where are we at? What does it look like?

[00:47:00]	What I want you to do, 'cause I know we have to start wrapping up, and we went really deep into pricings today, but I know it was really, really helpful. I want you to really outline those packages. Take those five idea clients, actually write down what you delivered for them and for how much.

	My handwriting is horrible, so hopefully you're writing it down, too.

Lane:	Yep.

Jaime:[00:47:30]	Ideally, I want to know the outcome. What value you provided for them, how much more money did they make because of it, or whatever those things are like we were talking about for the numbers. So when we go, the funnel costs this, and when Jason bought it, he made this much more. Or when Scott bought it, he made this much. Or Karen, this much. 'Cause what we want to do is dollarize this, when we're actually selling it to them, and go, let's look at apples to apples and make it really an easy, no-brainer for that second package. We can talk about dollarizing it later.

	Does that all make sense?

Lane:	Yep, it does.

Jaime:	All in packages, and make sure that it lines up with what your new prices are that you want to charge.

Lane:	Okay.

Jaime:	'Kay.

Lane:	All right.

Jaime:	Perfect. And timelines, also. We need to know how long you're working with these people for what.

[00:48:00]
Lane:	
Okay.

Jaime:	Okay. Feel free to send these to me in between, so we can go over those, especially because you need to get referrals and I know you're gonna want to know what the packages are before you sell them. What a surprise, logic, right?

[00:48:30]	So there's a whole bunch on that. Now, the next time, I know this is what we said last time, but the next time, when we're looking at the 250 that you want to make, then it will be way easier to go, okay, we need to sell this many of this package. It doesn't have to be 4000. That's sort of what we figured it out, based on how many clients you want to have, but you figure out all of those things so that way, we will actually put the plan together on going, okay you need this many clients, which means you'll need this many prospects, which means we're gonna have you cold-call, live on a- No.

Lane:	My head would explode.

Jaime:	If you don't do the things we said you did today, that's what gonna happen. I will create the list of the people you'll call, too.

Lane:	You've got all their phone numbers. That's the scary thing.

Jaime:
[00:49:00]	No, I'm gonna get the mean- No, I'm kidding. I used to do cold-calling for Kirby Vacuum Cleaner, and people would just hang up on me. I'd be like, I'm a nice person. No, it did not work. Not fun at all.

	But I will have at least 10 for you to call next time.

Lane:	All right.

Jaime:	Yep. Yay! All right, so do you have any final questions?

Lane:	No, I think this is good. I'm gonna get crackin'.

Jaime:

[00:49:30]	You have a lot to do. Ideally, I want you to come back and ... I'm gonna do a little bitty challenge at the end. I want a new client. I want you to flush this thing out within the next couple days, and before the next two weeks, when we chat again, I want you to have at least one new client.

Lane:	All right, that fits into the packages.

Jaime:	Yes, into this.

Lane:	All right. This actually helps a lot. It's gonna save me a ton of time, too.

Jaime:	Yay. I love hearing that. You're wonderful.

Lane:	Cool. Thank you.

Jaime:	We'll chat again soon. Bye.

Lane:	Thank you, bye!

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Categories: All, Marketing, Sales

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