Coaching Session With Lain – Goals And Confidence Levels

A slightly manic writer, speaker, and deep thinker – Lain Ehmann

How to break down your yearly money goals into monthly numbers. How to raise prices across the board for every client you currently have. What you should and shouldn’t bill into your final cost of your project. What you should and shouldn’t bill into your final cost of your project. How to get out of the hourly mindset. Types of questions to ask during sales calls so your prospects realize how much money they’re losing by not hiring you. A simple exercise to assess you current confidence levels. LainEhmann.com

 

Hey! I’m Lain, and I’m your human guinea pig.

Just kidding!

I’m a business/marketing communications strategist and copywriter, and I worked with Jaime last year in the Million Masters group coaching program and made tremendous strides. She helped me transform my consumer-facing business into a professional services business, pretty darned fast. (You can hear my story here).

Long story short, in 2016 I went from shutting down an online events company and having ZERO idea what I wanted to do, to bringing in a consistent $8-$10K per month via copywriting and marketing consulting by the end of the year. Yahoo!

When Jaime mentioned she was looking for someone to do live coaching with for her audience, I jumped at the chance. Now that my business is headed in a new direction, I want to build? leverage? grow? AND MAKE MORE MONEY! 🙂

Anyway, I’ll be writing these posts on a regular basis to tell you how the coaching is going and what discoveries and changes I’m making along the way. Stay tuned!

 

Synopsis

In this, our first coaching session, Jaime walked me through my financial goals: Where I want to be by year-end, and, given my current average project size, how many projects I’d have to complete this year and this month.

Those numbers were a bit staggering.

At an average project price of $1500, I’d need to complete 14 projects a month — or 4 or so per week — to reach my annual goal of $250,000.

ACK!

That quick analysis told us a few things really fast:

• I need to be valuing my time more
• I need to bump up my prices to cover the “incidentals” and “extras” that clients ask for so I’m not losing money, nor having to “nickel and dime” them.
• I need to propose more options to my clients so I’m not just selling them a small project.

We also talked about how to quantify my results for people who ask for metrics. This is really hard for me, first, because I’m not a details person, and second, because I haven’t gone back to my clients to see what kind of ROI I’ve gotten them.

Well, that’s gonna change!

Jaime has charged me with getting conversion rales and asking past clients about the specific metric changes they’ve achieved by working with me.

The other thing we talked a lot about was confidence? you’d think after being online for over a decade, I’d be more confident in my skills and abilities.

And we discovered that while I internally am really confident, I don’t convey that confidence externally.

In fact, while my internal confidence is a 7-8 (on a scale of 1-10), my external confidence is only a 3!

That is my second “ack!” for this session. (No wonder I’m hesitant to quote my prices!) If I know Jaime, she’ll whip that out of me in no time. 😉

One final thing we talked about is how it’s critical that I present packages to my prospects LIVE. I tend to create a lovely proposal in writing and just email that out.

No more? Now, my new process is:

• At end of discovery call, schedule a time for the next call to discuss the proposal
• Send the written proposal just before the next call so I can walk them through it live

This will be hard as it’s really uncomfortable. But that’s what this is all about…

Topics Covered

• Annual revenue goal, broken down into monthly and weekly numbers
• Project proposals and how to handle requests for ROI
• Confidence!

Action Items

• What did you deliver for my clients, how much did I charge – what value did they get?
• Outline each package and what each includes
• Email for 5 more testimonials AND referrals (and ask testimonial from last week for another referral like the one he already gave)
• Call myself a strategist! 🙂

GOAL 2 weeks – set the packages and get ONE new client under the new packages 🙂

One product – One Funnel – Whole biz (white glove)

 

In Reflection?

Looking back at this session from the distance of a couple of months, I see how I’ve made big progress on some of these items and still have a long way to go with others!

I would say my internal and external confidence levels are moving closer together — I’m at least an external 4 now! 😉

I also have started consistently pitching higher packages, with some success. (And I present my proposal live on the phone or Skype, not just via email.) I’ve been asking for testimonials more regularly, too.

BUT? I’ve been really bad about processes and systems, and it’s clear this is going to rear up and bite me big time, as I’m spending way too much time creating custom solutions, repeating work I’ve already done, and in general not working very “smart.” I have a feeling we’re going to be tackling that soon?
Stay tuned!

Thanks so much for listening!

Lain Series

Part1 – Coaching Session With Lain: Goals And Confidence Levels
Part2 – Coaching Session With Lain: Packages And Pricing
Part3 – Coaching Session With Lain: Selling Like A Pro
Part4 – Coaching Session With Lain: Her Biggest Month EVER
Part5 – Coaching Session with Lain: On-boarding a Team Member

Transcript: Download

Jaime:	So because I know a bit about your business already, I'm going to go and ask you a couple very specific questions. But my goal right now is to figure out - because it's January - what your main focus is this year, so we can make sure that all the numbers work well. So you tell me, how far have you gotten for planning for 2017 already?

Lain:	Not too far. So I have laid out a bunch of things in terms of how I'm going to track things, and what I know I have for this month, and possibly continuing into February. One of my clients in particular, he and I have worked together for a year so far. We do the major portion of my work is for him right now. 

[00:05:00] 	And so he and I did a planning call of sorts, looking at specifically the whole year, but focusing in on the first quarter, because he likes to change things, like all entrepreneurs do, right?

Jaime:	Never. No, of course not.

Lain:	So I have a pretty good idea of my workload from him. And I had a couple potential clients calls last week that I'm waiting to hear from, so anything that I know I have, I've got, but I haven't projected out what Q2, etc., is going to look at.

Jaime:	Perfect. That's why I'm here. So that's the thing about your business and the tide of how long - and I can hear myself in the background. The tide of long engagements are - so we're going to try to predict that as much possible. So let's sort of back it up 2016, what would you make in 2016 total for the year?

[00:06:00]

Lain:	It was just over $100, 000 I think.

Jaime:	Yay, with changing everything, go you.

Lain:	Yeah. And there were a couple months in there that were very, very low.

Jaime:	I mean, at the very beginning we weren't doing anything. I totally - go you.

Lain:	Exact month by month, but I want to say right about $100,000. And then I never know, like when I bill somebody for December, but they don't pay me until January, do I technically consider that - not in an accounting sense, but just in my sense, like is that a December, is that a January, but anyway, right around $100,000, I would say, give or take.

Jaime:	I love it. So what do you want to make in 2017 total?

Lain:	I would love to make $250,000.

Jaime:	Oh, yeah. So when you look back over the last 10 client engagements, can we get an estimate on an average sale price right now? Of course we're going to want to make it more, I get that.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	And I know you weren?t charging enough before hand, and we're definitely working on that, but if you had to guess what that average, every time you?ve sold somebody, you get for the whole entire project, what do you think that would be?

[00:07:00]

Lain:	It varies so much. I would say, if I look at it project by project, versus client by client, I would say $1,500.

Jaime:	Perfect.

Lain:	And you can tell from my voice that that's not a 100percent. I'm trying to up that, too.

Jaime:	Of course you are.

Lain:	The ones I've just bid this year are higher than that.

Jaime:	What are the bid prices so far on average, how much higher?

Lain:	So like for ? I've bid a couple email series, like seven to ten emails to bring nurturing from a lead magnet, and I bid $1,500 for those. So that is right in there actually. There's an enrollment page, like a whole web page that I bid $2,500. So it's tough because there isn't just one side of the project that I do.

[00:08:00]

Jaime:	I know. So it's tough because you're writing proposals for every single thing, and that's why I just want a guesstimate, because you're right, there's not going to be one hard and fast rule for you. Not that maybe long term we won't do like packages, but for right now because you're still flushing out exactly what people need, we're going to keep it at that.

Lain:	Yeah. And looking at that and knowing that I actually increased, I would say last year was probably less than $1,500, then $1,000 is what I would say.

Jaime:	I bet.

Lain:	Especially since I did some startup things in the spring for a Mastermind colleague.

Jaime:	I know you were so nice. And I'm like charge more. I mean, not to me, but everybody else. So what that means though, and when we're starting to look at this, this is where our face starts to go: oh, wait just a second, because, if you want to make $250,000, that's 166 projects that you have to do next year, or this year I should say.

[00:09:00]

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	So divide that by 12, that's almost 14 every single month. And then that makes you cry a little, so that's four every week.

Lain:	I know.

Jaime:	Right. Yeah, so even within that we need a team, because that's a lot, and or, charge a heck ton more. So quick question, when we're looking at $1,500, and you said per project, because I think that's important, how many clients get more than one project?

Lain:	Such a good question. I would say that most of them do. Looking back over the last year, I'll just use some first names because you know who these people are, and I don't want to share anything that they wouldn't want me to share, but you know these people. 

[00:10:00] 	[Inaudible] for instance I did a couple projects for him, and Scott, I do ongoing for him. And my main client as I mentioned, it's multiple a month. So most people, even if it's one project now, they'll end up coming back later for another.

Jaime:	Which I love, because they love you, and that's a testament to you for sure. That being said, so the guy that's doing multiple projects, how many is multiple projects per month? So if we had to figure like how many you can sort of squeeze in for one client per month, if they want more, what does that look like? Are we talking about $3,000, $4,500, is it like $2,000 to $3,000?

Lain:	Probably like [inaudible] we're talking about like $7,000 plus. And since he gives me the bulk of my work, and I've been working with him from the very beginning, he's actually somebody who, it's good and bad. It's good because I get a lot of work, but it's bad because I typically bill him at a lower rate because he gives me so much. And he's been, you know - you know, how that works.

[00:11:00]

Jaime:	I do. Now the good news is again I shaving somebody that it is a big fish. It makes it way easier for you because you don't have to sell them a thousand times.

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	You don't have to sell a whole bunch of little fish, which saves you so much time.

Lain:	In fact I have to tell him sometimes no, this is - I can't do this one. Because I can get, sometimes I've already filled in with other projects, and then also because I charge him a lower rate, I can bring in another client, who's going to end up paying me more.

Jaime:	Well, it sounds like that lower rate needs to be a little higher, if it's that low that you're - just saying.

Lain:	Well, that's one of the things we were - you and I previous to this call had really focused on, like how do I get that rate up across the board, for everybody?

Jaime:	And I want to not be doing $800.00 at a time.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	That's huge. You want - when you're with [inaudible], because your model has a ton of upfront time, where you have to understand who they are and what they are.

[00:12:00]

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	It gets easier because you're like: oh, I know these people. I've already done all my research.

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	So we're not really pre putting all that in, because you're trying to get project by project.

Lain:	Right. Which I'm trying to build in more now, is build in - anticipate that that research time upfront, I'm going to spend more, so I'm trying to bill more.

Jaime:	Heck, yeah. Okay, so when we're looking at - but you're very versatile, and that also makes it difficult, because you're like: oh, I can do this, and I can do that, and I can do this.

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	That will just take me a minute, right? I know you all too well. Okay, so when we're looking at project, because we've sort of - I had run the numbers on $1,500, and that means 14 per month, which is a little too much. We're going to have to tweak this in general. But how long does $1,500 take you?

Lain:	So one of the things I did when I was - and I'm so like, such a hand writing person, like I actually did it by hand.
[00:13:00] 

Jaime:	Me, too. Yeah, I know.

Lain:	I like it on the spreadsheet, so I can change the numbers around, but also when I'm brain storming and stuff, I like to do it on paper with a pen. So that's one of the things I started tracking too, was anticipating how many hours do I think this is going to take? So for instance, when I look at the email series, a seven email series, five to seven initial email series could take five hours, maybe. And I'm not sure if that ? because I haven't necessarily always tracked that time upfront, where I am consulting with the client originally. 

	Like, the ones last week, the calls that we had where we're just starting to discuss, and then I come back with a proposal, I do those for free, but then of course I should build that into the cost somehow.

Jaime:	Well, so I don't like building that into the cost, because all those people that don't buy, then those, they got that for free. So the way that I like to do is just charge enough, so that doesn't matter.

[00:14:00]

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	So that being said, if you do have to do those extra calls, for example you really - I mean, you just hired - one of my clients just hired you, right?

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	I know she did, she just told me. So I'm going Lain can help you with this. So we're not talking about this, she?s going to help with you that. But that means, she has to flush out your avatar. She has to really understand why people buy this stuff, which is a lot. So to me, those initial extra calls after the first strategy session, make sure that they're way more worth your bang for the buck. Because right now when we're looking at the five hours, are you including all the research and everything too, or is that just the writing?

Lain:	That's really - the writing actually doesn't take too long for me, what really takes a long time is the research. And that kind of works together because if I'm working too hard on the writing, then I know I didn't do enough research.
[00:15:00] 

Jaime:	But a seven email series, five hours at $1,500 is still $300.00 an hour. So it's not like you're not making enough bank for your buck for something like that. So I actually like that okay. I think where we get stuck though is - because we do have to turn if they're all $1,500 projects.

Lain:	Can I ask you a question? There was something else that you had mentioned to me is the idea of don't charge hourly, but it's almost impossible to get out of that hourly mindset.

Jaime:	Nope. Okay, so the reason why I'm doing that is just because before, it was a lot less than $300.00, so I wanted to make sure it was you valuing your time more, okay?

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	That being said, we can use it as a check in metric. It should be at least $300.00 because your expertise that you've cultivated over many years, you can't put a price on that. So yeah, that might take you five hours, it might take somebody else who is trying to do all the research and stuff like that 30.

[00:16:00]

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	So I don't care about how many hours it takes you technically, the only reason why I'm bringing that up is because you've undervalued yourself so much in the past that I just needed to check in and make sure that your time is worth it. Does that make sense?

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	Because $300.00 is good. So when we hire out somebody else to do some of the research for you, or ask specific questions or whatever it is that we figure out for processes to get you out of it a little bit more, it has to be enough.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	Like, it just has to be.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	It's just silly otherwise. Oh, I paid them that much. Oh, wait, I'm losing money.

Lain:	Yeah, I'm making $20.00.

Jaime:	There goes that. Oh, that's not worth it. Yeah, so it's just a check in metric on that side. With that being said, we also - and this was just the other day, I sent you a little voice text that said: were these proposals and I don't remember the answer, so we're going to have to go back to it. 

[00:17:00] 	With these proposals that you're putting out there, not only do we want to give them what they want, okay, this is it, I want you to propose, the whole point, a lot of other - not other options, but what you would do if you could. And this is the way I frame it whenever I do any sales. I put myself in your position, and I go what would I do if I were you? And thankfully I'm actually honest about it. I'm not one of those sales people just trying to sell them something. I think you're very similar to me. 

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	So I would be clear, like this is the most bang for your buck, or this is going to get you the biggest ROI fastest, whatever those things are, are you doing that in your proposals right now?

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	So give me an example, and how many people are actually doing the up sell?

Lain:	Sure. So for instance I sent him three over the last couple days. And one he had asked for just that email nurturing sequence. He's running Facebook ads to a lead magnet. So, that - he wants that series of ten emails after they opt in through the lead magnet. So I proposed - let me see what I actually proposed. Yeah, $1,500 for the ten emails. 

[00:18:00] 	And then I said, not only that, but I notice on your opt-in page that it's not optimized. And there are some things I'd love to do there to make it more - to increase your conversions, or you're getting a bigger bang for your buck from your Facebook ads. And I said would you like me to pull together something? Because I didn't want to put too much in front of him at once, but I planted that seed. And I said something like I hate the idea of optimizing the emails, when we're losing, you know, we're losing people before they even get to the email series. 

	I haven't heard back from him yet. Although, he did email today and say I'm going to be looking at this, thank you so much. I'll get back to you soon. So he let me know he got it, and that I should be hearing from him soon.

Jaime:	Okay, so he hasn't actually - we're going to talk about him for a little bit longer.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	He hasn't told you whether he was going with the ten emails or not?

Lain:	No.

Jaime:	So he's not - he's a prospect, not a client yet.

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	So this is what I would do if I were you.

[00:19:00] 

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	Ha, ha, see how I did that? So how much money do you think he is spending on Facebook ads a month?

Lain:	I do not know.

Jaime:	I would have asked that, okay?

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Number one, it really gives you an idea of perspective on how big his business is. And because ideally, when you're proposing the end piece, and you're like: oh, by the way, I would do this if I were you. So you saying I don't want you to lose conversions, but you also don't know what his conversions are, or do you?

Lain:	Well, there's - this actually came from somebody who does - it was a referral from somebody who does Facebook ads, who you know.

Jaime:	Awesome. I know everyone.

Lain:	Exactly. And so I do know that he's paying somebody high level to run his Facebook ads.

Jaime:	I love it.

[00:20:00]

Lain:	So he's paying a significant amount for his Facebook ads.

Jaime:	Yeah, so he must be doing a couple grand at least in ads.

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Do you know what his frontend conversions are; did you ask any of those?

Lain:	They just started, so we don't have any yet. So they just started.

Jaime:	Okay, so that - okay, so then I would do this.

Lain:	With this agency, I think they've done some in the past.

Jaime:	Okay. So what's tough is, ideally I would flush out some of those questions. So when you're actually on the call with him, be like: okay, ten emails, awesome. And then start asking more questions. So just go, just so you know I do way more than just this. And so no, I'm not trying to just oversell you everything. I actually want to look at all your stuff and see how it all fits together, that way I can actually optimize what I'm actually trying to give to you.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	So ask him questions on like: oh, so this is your landing page, what's that converting at? Oh, this is this, what is this, how is this doing so far? That way I can sort of start mitigating the pieces, because you can find that people love hearing it like this. You can find the money being left on the table, but not only that, because that's whatever, and that's kind of what you said. You're like: oh, I see you could be losing money, right? But to me, the bigger thing would be to actually dollarize it. 

[00:21:00]	So I think I've told you a little bit about this on sales calls, but Jeffrey Fox wrote a whole book called Dollarization, but what I would do is I would go: okay, I notice - because this is if you don't have the conversion numbers. If you actually have conversion numbers, I would run their actual numbers. But let's say his main landing page that he's sending a lot of traffic to on Facebook is converting at 10 percent, or whatever, we'll stick with even numbers because it will be easier right now. 

	And go, if you're spending this much money on ads, and ads are about this much a piece, so run those numbers, and then run it on what you think you can get the optimization on. And what I want, is I want that all of your money to be saved in that one thing.

Lain:	Right. How do I -

[00:22:00]

Jaime:	So if that's $1,500 every single month that I can bill in.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	Does that make sense?

Lain:	Yeah. How do I know I can do that? I mean, I know I can increase it, but there are so many other elements that I don't have control over. Since I'm not - do you know what I mean?

Jaime:	I do.

Lain:	So how do I give that assurance and say: hey, I can get it to 15 percent, and then I don't?

Jaime:	So you frame it by saying our goal will be getting it to 15 percent.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	Or our goal will be more, right?

Lain:	It could be like an initial goal. Our initial goal would be to get it to -

Jaime:	To get these numbers that I just said, I think you can do - everybody that ever, in a million years, is always guessing. 

Lain:	I know.

Jaime:	I mean, the best congregator in the world has misses all the frigging time, right?

Lain:	Right.

[00:23:00]

Jaime:	And it's all about optimization. And you already know that, but sometimes you're like: oh, well, I still can't optimize within the timeframe that I have. So in that case, because I know you, and you care about people as a human being, I would work your butt off, of course. And then if you're like: you know what, I just couldn?t do it because of this, that, and the other thing, I would just give them something a little extra. 

	You know what, I'm going to give you, I'm going to write an article for you for free because, we didn't hit that number, and I really want to make sure that you feel good about this.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	You can't guarantee conversion numbers, you just can't.

Lain:	I had somebody ask me that on a call the other day. He said, "Well, what kind of conversion numbers do you get with the clients you work for?" and I said, "I can't even tell you that."

Jaime:	Okay. So you can say that, because that's data, you can't say what you'd predict from them. So this is how I would frame that. Don't say I can't tell you that because it's all different.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	If they asked it very specifically like that, I would say: well, this client Jason, we went from this to this, this person, we went from this to this, because that's all they care about. They just want to know that you know what you're talking about and you've done it for other people beforehand. 

[00:24:00] 	With that being said, you said - you can totally say: of course that's not a predictor of success for you, but I think we can really level this up. I have no idea what the percentage points will be.

Lain:	And so many of the clients I work with, I'm stepping into - what I told him too is I'm stepping into a vacuum, there's nothing there, so anything I do is going to be better. So I hate telling you we increased his conversion to 20 percent, when there was nothing before. So it's like I'm - I don't know if it's I'm too honest, or I just don't want - I want to stay as far as I can from shady and scamming.

Jaime:	Yeah, you don't want to be one of those sleazy sales people, where I'm going to get you this.

Lain:	Yeah, exactly.

Jaime:	And you would have gotten crap without me.

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	But this is why I love you, so to me that does not matter about you at all.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	If I knew somebody was one of those people, no way in heck would I say stuff like this, but I know you very well, and you want somebody happy, no matter what.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	So to me, when I'm looking at what I would, because I'm a very similar personality, everybody is happy, otherwise I can't not sleep, right?

[00:25:00]

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	Which is a wonderful trait, thank goodness. Thank goodness there are people in this world like you. But what you tend to do then is step back. And then the person that's comparing you versus the other person, they're like: well, he guaranteed me this.

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	And you're like: I'm going to do ten times better than that guy. What the heck?

Lain:	But I'm not going to say - I mean, it's so hard for me to say I'm an expert. I'm so far - it's so hard for me, in fact that was - you know, I did my vision board the other day, and one of the big themes of that, and I'll give you a photo, so we can share that, was to step into that expert. That I know I'm a leader. I know I have the expertise, but I also know it depends. It always depends. I could say 90 times out of 100, this landing page would perform better, but we got to test it, because we don't know for sure.

Jaime:	I get that because I used to be you. So this is what worked for me.

Lain:	Yes, do tell, I'm excited.

[00:26:00]

Jaime:	Ready, all the wisdom, go. Okay, so I was the type of person, the exact same thing, especially at the beginning, where I did not feel like I was an expert. And my mentor made me charge the amount that I would charge. So I've told you this story before, where he was like offer a guarantee. If you don't feel like it was worth it, like tell them they'll get their money back. So I'd check in and be like: is it still worth it? Which is not the expert thing at all, but it made my brain feel better. 

	So I made it my mission, and this is what I want you to do. I want you to make it your mission to make raving testimonials, no matter what. And I know you're planning on doing this anyway, but literally numbered testimonials, numbers. We increase them this much. And I get that you are sometimes like: well, it could have been this, and Facebook just, maybe that's cheaper. Do you know what I mean?

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	You're writing the copy, so you're going through, you're helping them. As long as they don't have 17 other experts, usually it's because of you, not because of the crazy world that's coming on. That being said, you're going to have so many, and this is what worked for me, because I am a words of affirmation girl also. 

[00:27:00] 	And so I needed everybody saying it over, and over, and over again. I would print them out, and read them when I felt crappy. And I highly recommend you doing the same thing. Because it's the other people's faith in me, and me going - not just the faith, but it's the numbers. I did this to this. I did this to this. Wow, I'm really good at what I do, look at me. And you don't have hits every single time, especially - do for me as a coach; it's based on what the person does. I can tell them everything, and they may not do any of it, right?

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Or they might tweak it and be like: well, I did this instead. And I'm like: well, that's not what I said. So for you it's the exact same thing. But for all those wins, you have so many piled up, it's data, and you can believe data, because you're a data girl, right? You know, that if 300 people are like, "Oh, my gosh, Lain helped me double," you're probably a bit of an expert, right? A little bit, a little bit of an expert, right?

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	Not that you're going to have 300, but you want 166 this year apparently.

[00:28:00]

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Right. And I know you, but I want it to be your mission to collect those. Because it's one thing to go: I help them and they're happy. It's another thing to go: we went from this to this, and then a lot of it was me.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	Then when you have sales calls like this, you can rattle of numbers. I mean, you've heard me rattle of Joey a thousand times. When I started working with him it was $500.00 a month, now he did $1.3 million in two years. And I'm going to go visit his dream house. So I weave that stuff in when I do sales calls for sure. I'm going to see Joey's dream house.

Lain:	So I can say Jason just bought a Porsche? How did you do - he just bought a Porsche.

Jaime:	Jason just bought a Porsche with cash. And for him, I know his numbers too, because he's also a client. So when we start looking at health trajectory, you're like we did this without my number, without my copywriting, and then his next launch we did this. This was the conversion, this was the open rate. So you can actually pull out the pieces that are really, really great that you actually did. Does that make sense?

[00:29:00]

Lain:	Yep.

Jaime:	And then if it doesn't work, so let's say you sell someone and they're like, but Lain you said, blah, blah, blah, right?

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	You care. So if you genuinely like worked your butt off, you guys couldn't figure it out, you will figure out a way to make it right, that's what I'm not worried about with you, which is good.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	Does that make sense?

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	Okay. But that expertise comes across. Like, we had a call the other day, and I was like: oh, your voice just changed, your tone of voice. Oh, look at that, you're now Lain like this.

Lain:	Right, which is better than sending an email. I'm actually on the phone.

Jaime:	Girl, you are beaming. Exactly, a thousand times yes. Don't get me wrong, a thousand times yes.

Lain:	That's what I was thinking, I was like: well, you heard my voice.

[00:30:00]

Jaime:	I know. I said it to you live. Yes, a very big improvement. And that's the thing; you're going to see the trajectory over the entire year, because this is the thing that we can't measure, which is a pain in the butt, because I love measuring everything. But your confidence level - actually, I'm going to do this. We're going to do this because I'm going to write this down. On a scale of 1 to 10, where is your expertise confidence level right now in January?

Lain:	So there's the internal confidence level, where I feel like I know as much as anybody else out there.

Jaime:	Of course.

Lain:	And there's the one that I feel comfortable projecting, which is the big challenge.

Jaime:	Okay. What are the two - tell me the two different numbers?

Lain:	Yeah, I would say in terms of my internal one, how much do I know about copywriting compared to the world as a whole, I would say 7 to 8, because I study it constantly. I don't think anybody can be a 10, because it's changing all the time. And I've done this for so long.

Jaime:	You're one of those people, it's always a 9 is perfection. Yes, I get it. So what's your external, and be completely honest?

Lain:	3.

Jaime:	Look at that gap though, right?

[00:31:00] 

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	And it doesn't make any logical sense, because you're internally a 7 to 8. So it sounds like you need validation.

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Why are you so scared about - like why is 3 the external? Why are you scared about saying stuff?

Lain:	I think part of it is that I see so many people positioning themselves as experts and they aren't. And I know they can't do what they say they're going to do.

Jaime:	You're trying to separate yourself from the crappy people.

Lain:	Right. And that really bothers me.

Jaime:	Do you think positioning yourself at a 3 helps separate you from the crappy people?

Lain:	And -

Jaime:	No, no, answer that question, answer that question.

Lain:	Yes, it does, but not in a good way, not in a good way.

Jaime:	So there's a real big distinction, because I totally get it, that's my whole story about the Kirby vacuum cleaner. I came from that type of sales, and then I hated sales. And then all my selling was timid.

Lain:	Right.

[00:32:00]

Jaime:	And what timid sales does is gets you broke, and you can't actually help anybody. So then they hire the crappy people, and you're like what the heck?

Lain:	Right, exactly.

Jaime:	So you already know this, but you're doing a disservice.

Lain:	Yeah. And I think really, this helps about - I don't want to sell them something I can't deliver on. So being able to frame it this way is really going to help. So if I say, for instance - and I actually did this in one of the proposals - I said your conversion - I say, for instance - and I actually did this in one of the proposals - I said your conversion - I know what his conversion is because he told me. On his landing page, it's like, I want to say it's like 4 percent, it's bad. And I said that my immediate goal would be to double that immediately. And I think there's a couple things we could do to double that. 

	Because he's saying, "Well, should I be doing Facebook ads? Should I be doing webinars?" And I said don't do any of that until you optimize this, because it's like sending water through - you know, paying to send water through a leaky hose. Let's fix the hose, it doesn't have to be perfect, but let's make it as good as we can get quickly, so you can go from there.

[00:33:00]

Jaime:	So what I call that is low hanging fruit.

Lain:	Yes, exactly.

Jaime:	With my clients, I like telling them short term and long term, low hanging fruit, versus what I can do long term. And this is - I know we're going a little off tangent from goal setting, but I think this is extremely important. So I agree that I want to separate myself so much from the scamming people that I wasn't into the promises stuff. But you bringing up, wait a minute look at that, and I know I could at least do 2 percent, let alone I'm pretty sure we could hit 8, and my goal would be to hit 15. So you're just being completely honest, right?

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	And go that's only one piece. So imagine, and let's say he said the other conversions, then you did this one by 1 percent, this one by 1 percent.

Lain:	Exactly.

[00:34:00]


Jaime:	It's huge. So you're not going, I can guarantee I'm going to double that. We're going to go: okay, the way that I work is I go what is the most bang for your buck, in the quickest way possible? The 80/20 rule, how can we really get all that low hanging fruit, so you feel as soon as you hire me, three weeks later, we see a bump in conversion, and you're like: oh, my gosh, Lain's amazing. I want to hire her for everything else.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	Which is why on your proposal you have long term stuff. So when you ask me for this, because of the low hanging fruit opportunities I see, this is the long term plan. So that way they can see like: oh, my gosh, Lain did this. She did what she said she was going to do, which was a small project. And even if you didn't, like I said, that's the piece where I would go, "Were you happy?" And actually have those hard conversations. And we're going to talk about this the entire year I'm sure, but I want you to go forth deeply into the hard conversations. Because even though a words of affirmation person doesn't want to hear anything negative, that's us getting you to be less timid, to take constructive feedback, and improve as a human being, let alone with this.

[00:35:00]

Lain:	Yes. Which is - because you know me - is so much a part of what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to become better. Not just a better business person, but a better person.

Jaime:	And you have kids. You know what I mean?

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	So imagine being a timid mom your timid life. Although, I know you're not a - I know that, right?

Lain:	Yeah, I'm not.

Jaime:	And this is what's so funny, I talk about comfort zone and in the mom setting, we're thrown into getting outside of our comfort zone. There's nothing you can do, right? You figure that stuff out as much as you can. And with business, we can tend be a little bit more timid. We can make the choice to go in, and or not. But imagine your comfort zone, like when your kids were young, because they're a lot older now, and imagine how much your comfort zone grew hugely.

Lain:	Yeah.

[00:36:00]

Jaime:	And of course there's always new challenges and it keeps growing, but it's the same thing in business. So if we can really go through and help you, especially with this words thing, and the timidness, and the confidence side, and really open up your [inaudible] [00:36:11].

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	It makes everything in your entire life, as it regards to business, better. I know because, oh my gosh, somebody said the other day, they were like, "Wow, your confidence is extremely high." Which was huge, because I was like this when I was first starting. And so to me, your action items, in regards to getting those pieces higher, because we're just closing the gap. You're never - like you said, you're never going to rate yourself a 9. We're trying to close the gap from the internal and the external. So 3, 7, 8, right?

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	So each of those pieces are going to add up. I want you to ideally be that within the next three to six months, which means a lot of validation.

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	And a lot of internal work, which is kind of a pain in the butt. Does that make sense?

[00:37:00]

Lain:	Yes, totally.

Jaime:	So one of the action item that I want you to do, is go through all your testimonials, or any emails, where people are like, "Lain, you're amazing." Ideally ones with data of course, but all of them specifically, and put them in a folder. And either print them out because I know you're a paper girl, right?

Lain:	Yep.

Jaime:	And whenever you're feeling timid or crappy or whatever, you look through those again.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	You're not going to have to do this long term, but short term you definitely will.

Lain:	Right. How do I get some of that data from clients are they going to be open to giving that to me do you think?

Jaime:	Yes.

Lain:	Okay. But I have to ask.

Jaime:	Yes, more poking. So ask five previous clients data numbers. Plus that's a perfect opportunity to be like, "Do you need anything else from me, by the way?"

Lain:	Right.

[00:38:00]

Jaime:	So, yes, they definitely should. If they are not excited about that, say we can totally keep it confidential, if you don't want to say what your numbers are. I just want to say my client in this industry went from this conversion rate, to this conversion rate. That's the only reason why you want them. Make sense?

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	Because some people don't want to be like, "Oh, I'm converting 50 percent of my lending page, ha, ha, ha." 

Lain:	Sure, yeah.

Jaime:	Which I totally understand because of competition and stuff, but just say that it would be confidential.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	Do you have any other questions on that piece, because I'm going to back to where we were before?

Lain:	Nope, that's good.

Jaime:	I lovingly slapped you around, it's okay.

Lain:	That's good, that's why I'm here.

Jaime:	And that's the funny thing is that I can see your confidence in so many things. When you get in your zone, you are literally an 8 or 9 in confidence. Oh, you need to do this, you need to do this. You act like me, you're like, "I just tell you what to do." So we're just shifting that confidence to the sales calls too, because you already know you have it.

[00:39:00]

Lain:	Okay. I think part of it too now that I think about is that idea of being a copywriter, versus a consultant. And the copywriter is a very different role to me. It's more like laying the bricks. There's a skill to it, but it's not that same strategic skill that I can really bring as somebody with ten years of marketing experience, who can't just write great copy, but knows: okay, why are we writing this? Is this going to contribute to your overall business goal? 

	I know you have a small goal of nurturing these leads, but then where are they going? And is your product really - is the free class you're offering really in line with your product? I go deeper than most copywriters do. So when people say I need some copy, they don"t always know what they're in for.

Jaime:	That's good. Okay, so I would call yourself a consultant.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	Pretend you're hiring out a copywriter for this stuff.

[00:40:00]

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	Because eventually, hopefully, we will. Not that you don't love the copy side, but having a junior copywriter or something like that could be really great. So to me, yes people - the problem is, is that a lot of people are like, "I need a copywriter." And then they're like, "I'm going to go hire a consultant."

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	Usually. So you get them at the beginning, and go by the way, we do copy, or I do copy, or however you want to say it, and I'm a consultant, so I'm going to give you the broader picture of what I see, because copy in itself, isn't necessarily enough.

Lain:	It's a tool. It's a tool, and I want to make sure we're using the right tool in the right way. And just like there's ten different screw drivers, copy is not one size fits all.

Jaime:	A thousand times. So I would, in your beginning sales piece, you know how I usually do my spiel. I go: okay, I'm going to give you my spiel, this is sort of normally how it goes, it goes like this, blah, blah, blah. I would say, I'm not just a copywriter, I'm a consultant.

[00:41:00] 	 If you just want a copywriter, we can talk about that separately. And I want to look at your overall holistic business, and see where you're leaving money on the table, so let me. I'm not going to charge you for it, like let me, right?

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	So when you're going, explain like you just explained, copywriting is a tool. And there's many other things, and I just want to make sure you're doing the most bang for your buck, no matter what it is. And what I usually say on my sales calls, as one of the guys I just sent you, I'm like, "Dude, I don't think you need me. I would go after these two people."

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	So I did two referrals instead. And then I go talk to him, and then maybe we can talk again in like a couple months. But to me, I care about them as a human being. And he sent me a testimonial for that. I should send you the -

Lain:	That's awesome.

Jaime:	And he had never even listened to my show before. But that's the whole point, and that's who you are, so I would frame it that way at the beginning of your sales calls.

[00:42:00]

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	I care about you as a business owner. I know that's weird, but that's okay. I'm the consultant, and I'm going to look at my whole tool set and go, "I think you need this." If it's not a copywriter, I will tell you that. If it is a copywriter, I'll tell you that, too. But if I were you, I would do these things. And at the end you will have a step, even if that step is me introducing you to someone else that would be a better fit.

Lain:	Okay, I like that.

Jaime:	Because people are like, "Wait, this is your sales pitch?" And I'm like yeah, huh, honesty. I know all the tactics and I don't want to have to use them. Because these people that you're working with, you have to work with Lain, like you actually have to talk to them for a long period of time. And you don't want somebody that you're just trying to sell. I mean, I know you, you're not going to.

Lain:	Right, no.

Jaime:	So I would make sure you're professing that though, because people just assume you're one of those scammy guys, and you need to say that upfront, otherwise you're going to feel like you're one of those scammy guys.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	And so you'll have to push the tactics, the sales tactic stuff way more because the preface wasn't there. Does that make sense?

[00:43:00]

Lain:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Okay. I'm glad you said that, because I agree, you're a thousand times more than a copywriter. But a lot of the people that I've coached that are copywriters have this exact same problem also, by the way. They're way more than that. don't want somebody that you're just trying to sell. I mean, I know you, you're not going to.

Lain:	Right, no.

Jaime:	So I would make sure you're professing that though, because people just assume you're one of those scammy guys, and you need to say that upfront, otherwise you're going to feel like you're one of those scammy guys.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	And so you'll have to push the tactics, the sales tactic stuff way more because the preface wasn't what else I would do, then -

Jaime:	Our friend Jason is like, "Oh, my gosh, thank you so much for Lain." And I'm like exactly. I rarely get those. I rarely get people coming back to me doing that, so write that down, and put that in your little testimonial box, okay?

Lain:	Yeah, that will help.

[00:44:00]

Jaime:	Perfect. Alright, so let's look at the numbers again, because I know we only have about 15 minutes left, and I want to make sure that you're - oh, actually we're running a little bit over. I didn't realize, we already for awhile. Alright, so I have these action items right now, but I really want to get clear on your $250,000 goal. Because, if we can break it down into how many people - can you hear my puppy in the background?

Lain:	Aww.

Jaime:	How many actual engagements we need, and clients we need to sell. So because it's not a one size fits all and we don't have a package - well, actually you have a reoccurring option don't you?

Lain:	No.

Jaime:	Or I know you had something like that.

Lain:	No.

Jaime:	Oh, you haven't?

Lain:	I had put them together, but nobody ever has picked up on those.

Jaime:	So no retainers or anything like that?

[00:45:00]

Lain:	No. And in fact I asked my main client about that. I said you should just put me on retainer, and he was reluctant to do that. So I didn't push it. He said - I think he's had bad experiences in the past with other people, where he's paying and he's not getting things. And actually, I've been doing more work and billing him or than what I would have.

Jaime:	Isn't that funny.

Lain:	Then the retainer -

Jaime:	Be like fine, I will charge you more, awesome.

Lain:	Yeah. But I am making an effort, because he said he wants - he had hired another company to do some SCEO and blog posts, and it did not go well at all. And he said I want to pull this back in-house, and is that too much for you, because he has me working on bigger projects. And I told him, I'm looking at bringing in a researcher, or an assistant of some sort of to help. So let me put together a proposal for just that, so that then would be a retainer.

Jaime:	Okay, that's perfect that you mentioned this because the other piece that I didn't mention beforehand, because our goal number one is to sell someone long term, or a bigger project of course, you just have to sell less, right?

Lain:	Yes.

[00:46:00]

Jaime:	So in those proposals, and I have a whole system for this, which I don't know if we have enough time to get into, especially because we still have all the rest of the goal setting stuff to go over, which we can also do next time, is to give an incentive for them signing up for the bigger package, or longer proposal. So usually, like even with my bundle packages, the more you buy, the cheaper it is.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	So I would do something like that. When I get your commitment here, you get an extra bonus of this, that, and the other thing.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	But make it good enough. Because, remember all of those hours you are saving on the selling side, and the sales, and the prospecting, and the whatever. So if we can get them to bite, it makes a huge difference. Does that make sense?

Lain:	Yep.

Jaime:	Okay. So make sure that that is in there, with that being said, part of the system that I want to tell you about, is I don't like people sending out proposals, and maybe we talked about this before, sending out proposals and just going, I hope you got it.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	And have I told you this before, where you actually get them on the phone and hand them the - okay, yes?

[00:47:00]

Lain:	I have not been very good about that.

Jaime:	Oh, what a surprise, girl. So when you're on the sales call with them, you schedule a 15, 20 minute quick call, at the end of that call.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	Because if at the end of that call, you're like we're going to do a proposal, I already know I am. I will have it to you by this date. Let's schedule a call, so I can go over it. And that way you do not deliver it until you're on the phone with them.

Lain:	So it would be like, we're on the phone right now for our scheduled call. And I'll say I'm sending this to you right now?

Jaime:	Or in Google Doc or whatever.

Lain:	Okay. But I actually share it while we're on the call.

Jaime:	Because the thing is, because this is what happens, they get it two hours before, and then they cancel the gosh darn call. Oh, never mind, thank you, nope. Because you're prefacing, because number one, you don't want somebody that's basing you just on price anyway. So hopefully the first call is what validated that for sure.

[00:48:00]

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	And that being said, when somebody just sort of hands over a proposal, it's quite sad - I've done research for clients on this, asking about health proposal whole process. And it's a pain in the butt because people go: it's kind of apples to apples and it's kind of not. And then they go this one. So we want you - and I'm not one of those people who necessarily is like: okay, now you have to decide right this second. But that being said, on that 15, 20 minute call, be like: okay, I'm sure you're getting other proposals. I'm sure you're waiting for this. This is after you have validated and all that fun stuff, try and get on a timeline.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	So that way they get yay or any. I'll just assume it's a no after this much time, just so you know. I have to really pay attention to my timelines and how much time I have to do things, because this is the nature of the beast, right?

[00:49:00]

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	And so that's what - and we can outline that a little bit better, but I want you to start implementing it, right? Say, yes.

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	There we go. So make sure whatever those next proposals are that you're sending that that's what we do.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	Did you see how confident I was in that?

Lain:	Yes.

Jaime:	I know it works, Lain. I know it works. So I'm going to actually give you an action item that I want you to bring for next time, because I know we have to start wrapping up.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	So what I want you to do, is when we start looking at these projects, when I started running the numbers, 166 people or projects. Can you imagine being on the phone 166 hours just to sell them, and that's if it was a 100 percent closing ration, which it's not, and then you have to write the proposal.

Jaime:	Right.

Jaime:	That's crazy. So what I want you to outline, it's not necessarily - I'm not going to call it a package, but I want you to figure out the best way to run - it's going to have to be more than $2,500 even. I mean, even just running - I'm just running the numbers right now, $250,000. How many projects do you want per month to work on?

[00:50:00]

Lain:	Well, it depends on; it's nice to have a balance of bigger ones and smaller ones, because it gives me completion along the way. And sometimes when I have really big ones, it just feels like it's never done, and then I get de-motivated. So I do like to have a balance, but I would really only like to have about three to five clients a month, if that helps?

Jaime:	That helps a thousand times over, because of when we do those numbers. Okay, so you're making $20, 833 a month. Make sure you write that somewhere, because that's going to be the main goal that we're going after. Because the hard things is, is $250,000 is just such a number, breaking it down into months will be better. But if we divided that by five, that means every one of your clients is paying you $4,166 a month, if we have -

[00:51:00]

Lain:	Which doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility.

Jaime:	Not at all. But what we have to do is go, what are we delivering for $4,000 a month per client? And that's your homework, that's your action items, because that's the point. Because what we want them to do is not only have the small projects and they're paying you $4,000, and you're like: okay, it's just one month. Lain, thank you very much. It was $4,000, awesome. What we want is two to three big fish, like you said, that consistently pay you $3,000 to $4,000 every single month.

Jaime:	Right.

Jaime:	That way because you know, if you get a team behind you, you have to make sure you're paying their salaries. Do you know what I mean?

Lain:	Exactly.

Jaime:	And so we need to have that very, very predictable. So two or three big fish, and then the rest little projects that fill things in. So if those little projects aren't there, you don't have to freak out, because everything's all set.

Lain:	Right.

[00:52:00]

Jaime:	So what I want you to do is sort of start mapping that out. What type of client would you need in order to be getting $4K a month, and ideally in three to six month increments? So they're spending $12,000 to $24,000 with you, which is typical of a business to pay that much for funnel in general, copywriting in general, at least. Because you can deliver $12,000 to $24,000 extra in a business, that's the right business.

Lain:	Right.

Jaime:	Not somebody that's making $50,000 a year, that's a different person. Does that make sense?

Lain:	Yes, totally.

Jaime:	Okay. So what I want you to do is send me that.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	And it can be really quick, it doesn't have to be that big of a deal, but those $4,000 a month, give me an idea of what that company looks like. This is what you do as a copywriter, so this works really well. What that looks like, and what you're doing for them to deliver 10X of the value? Does that make sense?

[00:53:00]

Lain:	Yep.

Jaime:	So pitch me.

Lain:	Okay, cool.

Jaime:	Do you have any questions on any of these?

Lain:	Nope.

Jaime:	Yay. So normally I'm typing up all the action items I did, and just because we're on video, so I wrote them down.

Lain:	Okay.

Jaime:	I'm going to take your picture, but my penmanship is so horrible it's ridiculous. So I will type them up after. I am going to run and get to the kiddos right now. And I know we're going to chat in just a little bit anyway.

Lain:	Yep.

Jaime:	But then I will send your action items, so you have everything written down, so next time when we get on the phone, I'm going to go: hey, Lain, where's that little wonderful box of all the amazing testimonials that you have?

Lain:	Knowing me I'll have it in a scrapbook.

Jaime:	You will, and it will be beautiful. You handmade me a journal. I was like you made that? Yes, you are amazing, I forgot, in so many ways, words of affirmation, words of affirmation. Let me know if you need anything in the meantime, though. You know where to find me, okay?

Lain:	Alright, awesome. Sounds great, thank you so much.

Jaime:	Bye, love you lots.

Lain:	Bye.

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Categories: All, Goal Setting, Other, Sales

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