How To Get Rid Of Food Addictions With Susan Peirce Thompson

Adjunct Associate Professor of Brain and Cognitive Sciences at the University of Rochester and an American business entrepreneur and author – Susan Peirce Thompson

Learn why certain foods are addictive and what a recovery program actually looks like.

Susan also explains “The Willpower Gap” and why it is preventing you from getting results.

Additionally, you’ll learn the surprising way your brain “tricks” you into eating all the bad foods and blocking you from losing weight! The three types of people and why this ONE type never has issues with food? while the other two keep struggling!

Plus, how Susan went from zero to 500,000 email subscribers in just 2 1/2 years without knowing anything about funnels, platforms and any other marketing “tricks”!

SusanPeirceThompson.com

Bright Line Eating Giveaway – Put in the code “Millionaire”. Ten lucky winners will be chosen to receive a copy of Susan’s forthcoming book Bright Line Eating (available everywhere March 21st).

Food Freedom Quiz by Bright Line Eating – Take the Quiz Now!

From zero to $100k (with Product Launch Formula) by Jeff Walker

Transcript: Download

Video Transcription provided by GMR Transcription Services.

Jaime:	Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I'm Jaime Masters. And today I'm really excited to have Susan Peirce Thompson on the show. She has a new book coming out; make sure you go check it out. And the first actual ten people can actually get it for free if you go to brightlineeating.com/giveaway, and put in the code millionaire, just so you know. Thank you so much for coming on the show today, and giving away the amazing book.

Susan:	Thank you Jaime, it's great to be here with you.

Jaime:	So tell us a little bit about what it is? So everybody is probably running to try and get a book right now. That being said they don?t actually know what it is, so why don?t you tell us a little bit about it?

Susan:	What the book is?

Jaime:	Yes, exactly.

Susan:	Yeah. Bright Line Eating: the Science of Living Happy, Thin, and Free. So it's a book that outlines the brain science of how the brain blocks weight loss. I'm a neuroscientist, brain and cognitive scientist, expert in the psychology of eating, and also formerly obese woman with a very addictable brain. And I break down for people why it is exactly that of the people who are obese right now trying to lose weight, one percent of them will get into a right size body. Why is that? 

	And of those one percent who are successful, almost all of them will regain the weight. We've got some of the most abysmal statistics in the world around weight loss right now. And people aren?t really looking at that going: gee, something is off in that, because people want to be thin so badly. And people who are successful in everything else. You know, they can get a graduate degree. 

	Before I lost my weight I could run a marathon, raise a family, do all sorts of things that are ostensibly harder than stop bending your arm to put the ice cream spoon to your mouth, but we can't stop doing it. And addiction is part of the answer, but that's sort of a trite answer. I think that people haven?t really thought deeply enough about what it means that certain foods are addictive, and what the actual ramifications of that are, and what a program of recovery actually looks like. 

	I talk about something called the willpower gap, which is you're not going to be able to count on your willpower to execute the choices you know you want to make in certain critical clutch moments. And so you're going to need a plan, a program that fills in those gaps for you. That helps you bridge the willpower gap, because you got to assume essentially that you're not going to have any willpower at the important moments, and you need a plan that works anyway. 

	So the book outlines, it also goes into the saboteur, which is where it's created in the brain, the part of the brain that tries to trick us into eating stuff that is not in alignment with our goals. And we talk about where that voice comes from neurologically speaking. And then the consequences of it, when we watch ourselves betray ourselves with food over and over and over again, how that actually creates some of the low self esteem, and the inner game issues that as business people we struggle with. 

	I know there's probably people out there right now, who aren?t in the body that feels right sized to them. And there's ways that the sort of psychology of how this unfolds over time and creates issues for us, even when we know ourselves to be smart, capable, kind, people with excellent capacity and really good hearts and stuff, we end up sort of undermining ourselves. And so the book talks about the psychology of that. 

	And then it sort of lays out the solution essentially, like what do you do about it. And yeah, it's my baby. It?s been my life?s work up to now, and it's really exciting that it's finally out.

Jaime:	I can only imagine. So everything that you said resonates ridiculously well with me, because I've had weight issues since I was little. I've tried 12 step programs. I've tried everything, because I was like I'm really smart and I can figure this out. And then you look at your brain, addiction runs in my family like all crazy, mostly alcoholism. Thankfully that's not an issue for me, but when you look at the patterns, you're like: oh, interesting. How come I can't fix this? 

	And because we're so good at so many other things, you would think it would not be this difficult. And I'm sure this resonates with a bunch of other people. So I definitely want to talk about business later, but I feel like diving into this is extremely important. Because when I did a survey of a lot of the millionaires that I interviewed and I asked them about their diets. And I didn't know if there was any kind of specific thing. And 50 percent of them said I eat the entrepreneur?s diet, which is whatever I can, whenever I can, and paying no attention to anything, right?

Susan:	Right. The entrepreneur?s diet, that's awesome.

Jaime:	Seriously, right. We use it as a crunch to be like: well, we're so busy. I can make bad choices.

Susan:	Yeah, got to grab something now, there's no choice. Yeah, there's no time.

Jaime:	Seriously. So the neuro side sense of it also, for smart people that are listening, they're like: okay, tell me what the brain is doing to me and how I can fix it? So if you can give us a couple tips, I know getting the book is also extremely important to get more, but can you help us out here with the beginning stages of what we need to know?

Susan:	Yeah, sure. Run and get the book, because of course it's a long narrative, there's a lot to it. Essentially our brains are blocking us from losing weight. And there's three clear ways that that's happening, that's chapters one, two, and three in the book. But let?s just take it right now on face value that the brain is blocking us, actively blocking us from losing weight.

Jaime:	It makes us feel so much better, by the way. We're like oh, good, it's not me, silly brain.

Susan:	Totally. And so the next chapter goes into why isn't everyone effected by this? And the answer is that there's a susceptibility scale. And you mentioned that alcoholism runs in your family, so not every brain is equally susceptible to the pull of addictive foods. And research shows that one third are low, one third are medium, and one third are high. And there's a quiz link in the book that is just a five question quiz, where you can take the quiz. If people want to take it now, they can go to foodfreedomquiz.com and take the quiz, and learn how susceptible their brain is. 

	Now if you're low on the susceptibility scale, then it really just is kind of a calories in, calories out, track your calories at My Fitness Pal or Spark People, or use Weight Watchers, hit the gym, you're good to go. But if you're in the mid range to high end of the susceptibility scale, you got a bigger issue on board. Because your brain ? now brains that are highly susceptible actually are really adaptive, like it means that they're more malleable, and it means that they're more sensitive to the cues that predict certain rewards and certain outcomes. 

	So these were the people in the tribe that would be the ones that would always know when the rattle snake was in the bush or the lion was approaching or the rain was coming for the crops or whatever. We're sensitive to the cues that predict certain outcomes and certain contingencies. But in this society it means we're highly drawn in by the cues that predict food rewards. And that combination with the ever available omni present junk food that we've got today is basically a lion?s jaw around our neck, like we just can't get out of that. 

	We get pulled toward the golden arches. We get pulled toward the site of the Dunkin Donuts? box in the teacher?s lounge. We get pulled toward the, you know. And then you build in some emotional cues, and some habitual cues, and some stress cues, and boom, you're just dead in the water.

Jaime:	You're screwed forever. So please help us now that we feel horrible.

Susan:	Okay. So the basic solution is around, first of all you got to treat an addiction as an addiction. So just like you're not going to tell your friend who is smoking three packs a day and just got diagnosed with emphysema and lung cancer that they need to adopt a really solid nicotine moderation program, I recommend that people adopt a bright line. A bright line is a clear solid unambiguous boundary that you just don't ever cross. So a bright line, it's a legal term originally. 

	So lawyers talk about bright line rules that will get applied the same way every time to produce consistent and reliable results. Bright line eating is around four bright lines: no sugar, no flour, eating only at meal times, no snacking, no grazing, and bounding your quantities with a digital food scale, both to make sure you eat enough vegetables, and to make sure you don?t eat too much of everything else. And getting actually enough produce is a big issue for most people, so it's really important to make sure that you get that one right. 

	Now, you're not going to be able to actually do that though, that's the problem. I mean, everything I just said sort of means that you're not going to be able to do that. So how do you boot strap your way into it? Well, you're going to need support. You're going to need a structured program, don't just try to do this one on your own, if you're really serious about it. We have an eight week online program that helps people. But basically some rough and dirty tricks are, number one you want to write down your food the night before. 

	And you want to look at automating your eating, the way you automate your teeth brushing. So if you asked people in that survey, which I'm sure you didn't because nobody ever thinks about it, like tell me about your tooth brushing habits? My guess is people would not have said: well, I brush my teeth like entrepreneurs, like I miss it most of the time because I'm too busy to brush my teeth. 

	They gave themselves the entrepreneur?s diet, but they didn't fall into the entrepreneur?s trap with tooth brushing. Why? Because tooth brushing has become completely automatic for them. Now not everybody, but 95 percent of people report that brushing their teeth morning and night is completely automatic, it's like breathing. It doesn?t matter if they?ve been out late, it doesn?t matter if they're tired, it doesn?t matter if they're grumpy, they don?t have to put a sticky note on the mirror to remind themselves to do it. 

	And we want to make your eating like that. That automaticity it governed by the basil ganglia, and you want to push your eating into that part of the brain, not the prefrontal cortex where decisions are being made, and time crunches are being evaluated, and I don?t have time to make dinner right now. You need to get yourself on a schedule where breakfast, lunch, and dinner, the right foods at the right time becomes the easiest options because you?ve wired in the habits that make it happen. 

	So breakfast needs to be like teeth brushing. So think to yourself, how can I make the right breakfast to eat, which if anyone wants to know, whatever.

Jaime:	What is the right breakfast to eat, yes, go.

Susan:	You know, fruit, oatmeal, and nuts and ground flax seeds, like start there. And if you want to make that oatmeal with some soy milk or almond milk, fine, if you want to make it with water that's fine, too. So fruit, oatmeal, and nuts and ground flax seeds, you got a perfect breakfast.

Jaime:	I have a quick question on that, because I've done that plan that you suggested for over a year. And my biggest thing was like how do you have no sugar, because even some, not oatmeal in general, but even like protein shakes have like one or two, do you have like a specific number where it has to ? because fruit has sugar quote-unquote in it.

Susan:	So you're confusing added sugar with a real whole food. So nothing with sugar added to it. Nothing with anything added to it to make it sweeter. So you're not counting the grams of sugar in fruit. So all fruits are okay, all vegetables are okay, all whole real foods are okay, but nothing added to your food to make it sweeter is okay, including no Splenda, no Truvia, no Stevia.

Jaime:	No, Stevia?

Susan:	No Stevia.

Jaime:	I know.

Susan:	No honey, no molasses, no maple syrup, no Agave, you know.

Jaime:	When I did this, and I used to have a sore throat all the time people would be like here?s honey and tea. And I'm like I don?t do honey. And they're like but honey?s good for you. And I'm like yes, I know, okay, but it's a thing that I do. I would have to explain it to people and it was a pain in the butt. So especially for people listening right now, because this sounds really, really hard core. Now don?t get me wrong, usually they're in a painful place, which is why they're willing to go about and do this.

Susan:	Yeah.

Jaime:	But a lot of people are like: well, can't it just be a little easier? And you're saying that in our brains in general, it has to be like this.

Susan:	Well, you know, I'm really not the Bright Line eating police. Like, I'm not in the convincing business, and I'm not ? you know, I'm not here to tell anybody they got to do anything, like you don?t want to do it, don?t do it. I'm not here to serve people who don?t want to do it. I'm here to serve people who are desperate for solution and need a roadmap that works. Are tired of banging their head against the wall because what they're trying isn't working, so I lay out a roadmap that works. 

	Now, if you want to try an easier way, you can try just letting go of sugar and flour and eating three meals a day, just make it that simple. Write down your food the night before though, so that that's going to really help with your planning and your preparation, and help with some automaticity. Most people won't be able to do that without a more structured program, but some people are. Some people take my videos ? I have a series of three videos called The Food Freedom Videos, they go out into the world every now and then. 

	When they do, you know, within a week or two 100,000 people in 190 of 195 countries on earth, all the countries that have internet access have watched them. And I get emails from people who just watched those videos, and just learned: oh, I'm addicted to sugar and flour. I didn't know. Three meals a day, I didn't know. And I explain the brain science behind it and they just do it. So yeah, I mean not everybody needs it, not everybody wants it. I don't because that Bright Line Eating is a solution for everybody. 

	I don?t believe everybody should be doing this. I do take issue with people who say this sounds extreme, because I think that what we're doing with food in our society right now is really extreme. Like, I think that 80,000 people getting a foot or a leg amputation this year because of their diabetes is extreme. Like, I think that someone walking into leg amputation when they know it's coming, because they can't change their eating, that's really extreme.

Jaime:	That's funny. Sorry, I'm coughing, too. Excuse me, my dad, hold on one second.

Susan:	Okay, no, worries.

Jaime:	Oh, that never happens.

Susan:	Everyone?s like she?s coughing? No, she?s been on mute.

Jaime:	I know. I've been on mute. But I didn't realize I?d have no voice when I came back. My dad actually makes prosthetics for a living. And what's insane is he sees it. And I'm like these people, don't they understand that that might be coming? And he?s like oh, they do.

Susan:	They do.

Jaime:	And it's ridiculous.

Susan:	They're walking right into it.

Jaime:	Yeah.

Susan:	Exactly. And who does that? Like, in the moment it doesn?t make any sense, donut, leg amputation, donut, leg amputation, donut, leg amputation. I'll pick the donut. Like, who does that? But that's where some researchers are estimating that sugar is eight times more addictive than cocaine. We're not dealing with something trivial here. And we're pre-addicting our kids to it. 60 percent of American 1-year-olds eat candy every day. 

	And the first foods that most babies eat is flour. You know, we put like rice cereal, which is flour, it's rice flour, into their bottles to thicken up ? you know, at six months old that's the recommended beginning of eating is flour.

Jaime:	I remember going into kid?s schools and going: oh, they have candy machines. You're like that is crack cocaine. Like, you're literally going: here children have some of this. And then my kids can't stop. Like, my daughter is like me. And I'm like well; we need to figure this out now. And that's why I way back when, when I went into all of this, I was like I need to figure this out for my daughter. You know what I mean?

Susan:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Because if she?s got an addictive past just like I do, we really have to pay attention to this stuff.

Susan:	We do. And I have a module in my Bright lien Eating Boot camp that?s for parents that talks about feeding kids, because it's a tricky one. And I have three daughters. I have twins that are eight, and I have a little one that's five. So there is something profoundly like heavy about the responsibility of raising a daughter in this society, with food and body image being what it is. And the pulls of you got to be thinner, but here?s another donut. You know, Valentine?s Day, like oh, my gosh. 

	My kids came home from Valentine?s Day and it was all about ? you know, they just came home with these bags of candy. And then they're all about, ?Can I have more? Can I have more?? And they're like little shaking junkies.

Jaime:	I know. Wait, I need another hit. I mean, what's sad is that I recognize it. And it's still one of those things where I'm like when you deny them, then they freak out, which is like crack. I mean, that's the thing, I have issues with it of course.

Susan:	Yes.

Jaime:	That being said they?ve been conditioned so much, but so have we, which is insane. Now I came from ? and we were talking about you live in Rochester, and I grew up there, or I went to college there, too. And when, no offense, in the Northeast in general I felt like people didn't know this stuff. Like, I grew up in the middle of nowhere, and nobody knew that sugar was bad. That's what you do. I had Little Debbie snacks in absolutely everything that I ? you know, as a little kid.

Susan:	Yeah.

Jaime:	So we grew up that way. So how do we, with the neuroscience background that you have, how do we change out perception of that, when it was comfortable food or whatever it was from before? Do you know what I mean?

Susan:	Yeah, totally. Well, and that's a big part of my mission is changing the narrative on a national and global level in some major ways. It's happening already. So the addictive properties of sugar, like it's starting ? and people are slower about flour, so flour is going to take some time to help people understand that flour is the same essential issue. But certainly the addictive properties of sugar are starting to be more common, more understood, more widespread. 

	But again, we need some nuance to that understanding, people need to understand the susceptibility scale, and that not every brain is equally susceptible. So there's a lot of people out there, a third of the population that are like: I don't know what you're talking about. I have one cookie and I'm like that tastes too sweet and I put it down.

Jaime:	And all the people that don?t have that issue are like you are so annoying.

Susan:	But, you know, if people think about it for any length of time, you know, alcohol is addictive. Alcoholism is a real thing, and not everybody who drinks gets affected. You know, sugar is way more addictive than alcohol, but it's a similar thing.

Jaime:	And it's accepted, quote-unquote, and that's what's crazy.

Susan:	Yeah. And so that's another thing that we need to ? you know, I think we're at a point now, where on New Year?s Eve if someone says ? you know, if someone?s pouring out the champagne into flute glasses, and someone puts up their hand in a stop sign and says: oh, no thanks I don?t drink. I think in general today people would be like: oh, okay. And they would not pour them champagne; maybe even try to help them find some sparkly water or something like that. 

	But today if someone says: no, thanks I don?t eat sugar, on Thanksgiving when the pumpkin pie is being passed around, you better believe someone going to say, ?Come on! It's Thanksgiving. You can't have ? you're not going to relax your diet on Thanksgiving?? And then it's not the time or place, but really underneath that it?s like you don?t get it. Like, that person might be the person who is trying to stave off a leg amputation, because of their type 2 diabetes. 

	That person might be facing a 10, 20 year shave off their life from their obesity. So saying come on, can't you have some pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving is really not helpful. So we do need to really ? our thinking as a society needs to advance a lot. We need to really think about how we feed our kids. Children?s menus for example, and celebrations, we are sort of ? I think our society has gotten so busy that it's just easier for everyone if food is the proxy for celebration, as opposed to connection, conversation, eye contact, hugs, love, sharing gratitude, telling stories. 

	Like, there's a lot that goes into a good holiday or a good celebration, other than a pie and a pan of brownies. We really need to sort of upgrade our expectations for celebration. And recognize that food ? and I don't know if we can get back to a society, where sugar takes sort of a side, where like it's there a little bit, but it?s not the front and center thing. 

	But in general, we might have passed the tipping point, where we kind of need to out sugar for the poison that it is, and kind of make it like cigarettes, where if people want to indulge it's fine, but socially they need to kind of do it alone away from people because not everybody can ? not everybody?s systems can tolerate that.

Jaime:	I can't even fathom the way that would be. Well, and tell me a little bit because there's a lot of upfront value to it also, especially as an entrepreneur. With clean eating you actually, your brain functions better. So can we talk a little bit about the way that that looks, because I feel like a lot of the ? especially the people that might not be super, super susceptible to the addiction side of it, also need to know that actually eating really well can actually help you perform better in your business in general, and then we can have the business conversation after that.

Susan:	Yeah, well, that happens on every level. And the level that I feel moved to talk about right now is actually, being an entrepreneur is like living in the Himalayas, the highs are higher, the lows are lower. I read in that Jeff Walker?s book Launch, and I think it's a really apt thing. And anyone who is pushing hard in their business knows that?s it really true, the technology gremlins that come, and just the financial, the cash flow issues, and all that stuff. And what clean eating versus crappy eating, the difference there is in large part it's a difference of emotional stability. 

	It's having the inner fortitude to have perspective when catastrophe strikes in your business, when things feel ? when it just feels like it?s just one thing after another, after another. And you got to sort of weather that, you got to think through it. You got to stay calm. Doing that when you?ve been eating a bunch of sugar and flour and processed foods is really hard. 

	Because even when things are actually tootling along, after you?ve eaten a bunch of sugar and flour and processed food, your brain is going to try to convince you that things are pretty desperate, and things are pretty awful, and you need to make some major changes, and it's never going to work out, and blah, blah, blah. You're trying to run a business on that kind of brain, good luck with that. I think people underestimate the degree to which eating a tone of fruits and vegetables, eating on a regular schedule, having a nice long fasting window, which means not eating from dinner, for 12 hours or 13 hours until breakfast the next day, all of those things set your circadian rhythm. 

	It means you're going to be getting better sleep. There's just so much research these days showing that it lifts your mood. It lifts the brain fog. There's definitely a sugar fog that lifts after a little bit. And yeah, it's hard enough to run a business. You don?t want to be gimping your brain while you're doing it.

Jaime:	Well, that's funny because we all talk about like hacking and miracle morning, and getting every ? and then the food that people are eating is naturally really looked up very much, as far as how efficient and effective you are thought process wise, creative, all sorts of stuff. So getting back to the normal baseline of where sleep does matter, and what you eat does effect what you're doing, it makes a big difference. 

	But sometimes as an entrepreneur you feel like you're just running around. And this is my little analogue, a lot of people feel like they're running and tripping at the same time. And you're like falling and catching yourself the entire time, right? So you're like, you're going to hit your face any second.

Susan:	Yeah.

Jaime:	And that makes it really difficult to live life okay, so of course you reach for whatever you can, to try and hold yourself, so you're not going to fall on your face. That being said, we're making not so great choices. So because there's so many highs and lows in entrepreneurship, and you know, you?ve been building this like crazy, what do you give us for suggestions, besides the getting your book and really focusing on the food piece, what can we do as entrepreneurs during the day, when we're going through like a really, really low down period?

Susan:	I'm a big fan of phone calls to other entrepreneurs. There's nothing like being understood and reaching out to somebody who knows, and someone you can be vulnerable with. I think just entrepreneurship, especially if you're an online entrepreneur like I am, it can be such an isolating lonely journey. It's one of the first things that I felt as I started this. I've since kind of build up a community around myself. And actually my team is my biggest community these days. I have 25 fulltime employees now. And we're all virtual, so we talk on the phone a lot.

Jaime:	You are all virtual, wow!

Susan:	Yeah, 25 virtual employees, all fulltime, full benefits, salaried, the W2 employees, the whole nine yards.

Jaime:	[Inaudible] [00:32:22] and not, because especially if you're such a community driven person, why virtual and not having a place?

Susan:	Some of it might be selfish, like I don?t want to show up to an office.

Jaime:	Makeup, no.

Susan:	And some of it is just the first ? you know, of the first four employees of our company, one lived in Rochester and the other three didn't. And everything has just been online from the beginning. I talk in my mastermind communities and stuff, you know, people have done both. And there is downsides, like to a virtual, like an actual ? people say first of all they get less work done, for sure, when they actually show up to work in a physical location, they get way less work done. 

	And I'm sort of the original, like I was a professor before. I was a tenured fulltime psychology professor before I did this. Well, as I started doing this that?s what I was. I had to hand back tenor because the business got so successful really quickly. So I had to ? anybody a year ago I had to take a deep breath and do something that apparently just about nobody ever does, which is hand back tenor.

Jaime:	Yeah, that's crazy. So tell me more about the decision to go into this from being a professor, because you could have just kept going happy go lucky as you went.

Susan:	Yeah. I had it made, you know. Well, was it really a decision? It wasn?t really a decision. The decision was to write a book, that's what I wanted to. So it was in my morning meditation. It was three years ago, it was January 26, 2014. I was in my morning meditation and the universe basically just put a mandate on my heart, strong, loud, clear, unambiguous, Susan write a book called Bright Line Eating.

Jaime:	I have chills.

Susan:	Yeah. And I had never heard the words Bright lien Eating before by the way.

Jaime:	Oh, really?

Susan:	Yeah, yeah. That was like here?s the thing, Bright Line Eating, go do that, yo. And I was like, uh? I mean, I knew instantly what I meant. I knew ? I had heard ? I had just been reading a psychology book about, you know, that had a little paragraph in it about bright lines, and how they're so helpful for willpower bolstering, and blah, blah, blah. And I've been in 12 step recovery. I haven?t had a drink or a drug in 22 and half years. I know what a bright line is. I don?t smoke crack. 

	I don?t do crystal meth. I don?t drink alcohol. These days I have a bright line for cigarettes, and a bright line for caffeine. And I know what a bright line is. And in the book it said bright lines are super helpful in all kinds of way, but they won't help you with your diet because you have to eat to live. And I had already for 11 years been doing the no sugar, no flour, three meals a day thing, weighing and measuring food thing. And I learned to do that at 12 step program for food. 

	I used to be obese, and I've been a size four for 11 years. And I?d really actually ? I was teaching my college course on the psychology of eating. I was sponsoring people in this 12 step program. I was spending 20, 30, 35 hours a week, both informally and formally helping people understand the neuroscience of food addiction. And I had sponsored just a gazillion people. But I was also trying to shake up my colleagues in academia a little bit, and help them to understand that they didn't have ? that the model that they were working off of, of weight loss and stuff was really archaic, and that there was a better way. 

	But 12 step programs are not scientifically study able. You can't really assign people the conditions or track people?s progress. You know, there's no last names, there's no central organization. I actually tried for a while to design some studies. But the other thing was the program I was in was really kind of arbitrary, kind of fanatical, and it pushed a lot of people away. Like, the people that I knew who went there, most of them just left and said: yeah, I'm glad it works for you, but I'm not doing this. 

	You know, three 90 minute meetings a week, no exceptions. And a lot of people just felt like it didn't really work with their lives and stuff. So it also was not a program that would work for anyone who wasn?t what I call a ten on the susceptibility scale. You know, one to ten, like if you're not a hard core food addict, it?s not even a program for you anyway. 

	When in my opinion, anyone who is a five or above, or a four or above on the susceptibility scale has got a bad enough food addiction issue that they're going to need some support, beyond just like tracking what they eat. So in my mind I started thinking all the fours through nines are sort of left out of this equation anyway. So I started to ?

Jaime:	I used to go to meetings and I would be the thinnest one there. And everyone is like why are you here? I'm like okay, thanks guys. You know, you're not supposed to do that, but still it was one of those things where I was like: oh, I'm not even welcomed here, awesome, but again, different groups, different things. And I know you're not supposed to talk too much. But being able to sort of go, I didn't feel like there was anything for me. I must be four through seven, four through nine, something like that.

Susan:	Yeah, totally. Right. So anyway, I wasn?t even thinking at that point about all this. This sort of evolved. But the mandate that got put on my heart is write a book. And that I could see instantly, like my mission has always been to sort of get idea out there to change the cultural narrative, to help people understand. You know, that old story of the frog gets put in the cold water, and then you turn on the heat and it lets itself boil to death. We're frogs getting cooked in the water. 

	And like the heat?s already pretty high. And like you kind of look around, nobody?s jumping out of the water. There's all these frogs in the water. We're all kind of like: hmm, it's getting pretty hot. And every now and then someone on the ? a little frog on the news will say here?s a picture of our growing obesity; gee it's still getting pretty bad. And then everyone will talk about like what are we going to do about this? And then there's all the profiteers, who are out there making money off it. 

	And I'm sure a lot of them are really well meaning. In my opinion a lot of them are lower on the susceptibility scale, so they?ve solved their food problem with diet and exercise, and they're peddling their solution, but they have no clue what someone who has got a brain that?s highly susceptible deal with, no clue. So I started trying to write a book. I started writing my book proposal, and then I realized pretty quickly that there was a section in the book proposal on your platform, and I didn't know what that was, and I didn't have one. 

	So I Googled what?s a platform? And I learned, like I had three little kids, and I'm assistant chair to the psychology department, and teaching all these college classes. And I'm like, you know, in what world am I finding time to build a platform in addition to writing this book? And so I somehow ? that kind of stalled me out for a couple months. And then I decided to build an email list for my platform. And that once or twice a week I could write a really good content full meaningful email that would move people, help people. 

	And I started following Jeff Walker, who I bought his Launching Your List 2.0 Program, which isn't available for sale in general, but it was a bonus at the time. His book Launch was coming out in the summer of 2014, and it was an up sell for his book launch campaign. And so I bought that up sell. And I sort of ? I launched my list on August 5, 2014. So that's two and half, almost three years ago now. And in that span of time half a million people have joined my list. 

	And I've grown from zero employees; I never expected to have an employee at all, never dawned on me that I would ever have an employee, and to 25 employees. And we serve tens of thousands of people, and have a big online community. We have a research program on the back end of our Bright Line Eating Boot camp. And our research is showing that our program is 280 times more successful than any documented weight loss program out there at helping people lose all their excess weight and then keep it off. 

	There's actually never been a published scientific study showing any program out there taking any cord of people and getting them into a right sized body, and helping them keep it off. And we've got scientists right now at colleges and universities writing up papers from our data to show that that's what we're doing. Now it's not the majority of people. 

	You know, on average out there it's like one percent loses it, and then a fraction of that one percent keep it off. In our program it?s way more than that, but it's not like 80 percent or something. But of the people who commit and stay, it?s pretty high. It's pretty high.

Jaime:	Thank goodness we have people like you that are doing this and actually paying attention to the new things to try and help as many people as humanly possible. With that being said, everybody loved talking about: oh, I had this book. I didn't even know what a platform was. I had to Google it. Oh, wait, 500,000 email subscribers later, you sort of jumped over that a little. So everybody is like: oh, wonderful for her.

Susan:	Right, right.

Jaime:	So I love the simplicity of I'm just going to write an email. Can you ? because I know we have to start wrapping up in a minute ? but I think you peaked everybody?s interest with two and a half years 500,000. So yes, you have a mission, and it's huge. And not really being said in the way that you're saying it right now, so of course that's compelling, but what do you think the reason is to go from zero to 500,000 literally within two and a half years, that's crazy?

Susan:	Yeah. And le tem also just say that like, before I go there I just want to say a little bit about success. Because I think by any metric I have a very successful business. And what I want to say about that is it is great. Like, I do love that my message is getting out there. I do love for sure the feeling of being driven by my mission and my purpose and all of that does feel phenomenon. I also want to say that any business owner out there will relate to the way that their finances aren?t understandable by their non business friends. 

	Like, if they say my business took in $120,000 this year, and then their friends are like: well, you got it made in the shade. And you're like you have no idea. Like, I had all these expenses, and now I have to try to invest in this new technology. And I'm actually not sure I have a virtual assistant that I'm not sure going to be able to pay next month. And that $120,000 sounds amazing, but actually I'm like as hand to mouth as you are, right? 

	So in that same way success is, it shows up as a lot of work, a lot of responsibility, a lot of fear about making payroll, a lot of it's hard and it's scary. And there's always top line numbers that make it sound really fancy. So yes, 500, 000 people have joined my email list. How many people are still on it today opening my emails, maybe 220,000. You know, so anyway, I just wanted to say that.

Jaime:	This is why we have this show though, that's the whole point. Because people will be like I'm a millionaire, blah, blah. And people, let?s get real a little bit for that exact same thing. Because we used to ? well, I shouldn?t say we. Putting millionaire, or whatever successful business people on pedestals and going like: well, everything is perfect for you, look zero to 500,000, tah dah. It was nothing, right?

Susan:	Yeah, totally.

Jaime:	And the ups and downs, so I really appreciate the clarification.

Susan:	Yeah. And like I've been in the fetal position on the floor sobbing, like lots.

Jaime:	Yeah, good. We want to hear that, thank you.

Susan:	Yeah, it?s been the hardest thing I've ever done.

Jaime:	With fast growth becomes fast growth.

Susan:	Oh, God.

Jaime:	Exactly, like as a human being, my gosh.

Susan:	Yeah. Okay, so I can share a couple things about the growth. And if somebody is ? you know, my business has grown super fast. And if somebody wants the ins and outs of that, so I'll say a couple things. First of all, there is definitely some things that just were true from the beginning that laid the foundation for the possibility of rapid growth. Some of them include, I do have a hot message with a market that really needs it, right? So I have a genuine bonafied, it works for real, for real solution for millions people that have a hair on fire problem, so there that.

Jaime:	You have the credibility backing up with the neuroscience and everything else, too.

Susan:	Yeah, and I have a lot of credibility. And I'm also; I would say that another big ingredient in my success is I don?t bullshit people. Like, I really, I lay out my own food addiction struggles. In 2016 when my business was growing crazy rapidly, I was binging through a lot of that, and I shared about that with my tribe.

Jaime:	That's amazing. So you're not like I'm the lady that has it all together all the time, awesome.

Susan:	Yeah. I mean, if I do have it all together, I'll be like yeah, at the moment I seem to be doing alright. And when I'm not doing alright, I'm really honest about that. And so people trust me. I have a ridiculous addictable brain, so I can speak to people who are really struggling with food, and I've struggled the way they have so. I don?t put myself out there as any kind of like shiny end product. I think that helps. People are really yearning for the truth out there. 

	They don?t want to be sold a bill of goods. They really want to hear what's real. And I have always, I think, had a knack for stepping out on to the edge and sharing what's true and what's real, with the potential of making myself look really bad, but the people end up loving it, so that's another thing. What else has been? Okay, so now ? okay, and then the third thing that I wanted to say is that I did a lot of inner work before I ever started this business. So I didn't have ? I didn't bring a lot of inner game issues that were holding me back right from the beginning. 

	Now, I've seen people be successful as they work through their inner game issues in process. And there's just a little harder because you have to make time for that inner work as you're going, but a lot of people just get stopped by their fear of ? they just get all tangled up inside and they sabotage themselves essentially. Now when I started my email list, I already had worked the 12 steps about 13 times in five different 12 step programs. 

	I had about 25 years of therapy on and off through the years under my belt. I had done Byron Katie?s The Work. I had done hypnotherapy. I had done acupuncture, acupressure, blah, blah, blah, right. I had written enough inventories of myself that like the fact that ? so my past is as a drug addict. Like, I was a drug addict. I was a prostitute. I dropped out of high school when I was a teenager. I burned my life to the ground. I quit doing crack and crystal meth and all that stuff when I was 20, I got clean and sober. 

	My food addiction reared its ugly ahead again. It was always there in the background, and that's why I was doing all that crystal meth. And food addiction took over, but my academic career was able to flourish in spite of the binging and all that. And that stuff, I'm just honest about that stuff. And I've worked through it enough that that all could have just come right to the forefront and just stopped me. Like, wait, I can't be ? I can't play a big game. I can't be seen by a lot of people because I've got this vicious past and what if someone finds out I was a call girl? 

	Well, I just worked that in, like it just becomes part of the thing, right. Like, what is someone is going to fire me? I'm frickin on the internet on doing my own thing here. I'm not beholden to anybody. I had to clear it with my husband. I had to clear it with my dad. But there's parts of my narrative that I just bring out, and I've done the inner work to allow that.

	But whatever people sort of feel like, whatever reason people have for thinking that they can't play big, I didn't let that stuff stop me, where I've done the work to allow myself to step out through that. So I just wanted to say all that.

Jaime:	That's extremely important, especially when you were talking about your morning meditation, and you had this book idea, it sounds like it was huge, and you're like: oh, I have to go do this now. And it was like nothing behind it. Like, oh, okay, well now I have to go do this, good to know.

Susan:	Right, exactly.

Jaime:	So I love that you said that you spent years, and years, and years, and years to get to that place.

Susan:	Totally. And I also want to say that I was too busy already when this whole Bright Line Eating thing came into my life. I had no time in my life. That morning meditation was a set thing in my day, and it started at 5:00 a.m., and it went until 5:30 a.m. And then I started taking sponsee calls back to back to back for 15 minute increments. So when I started to write my book proposal that meant that now I started setting my alarm for 4:25 a.m., so that from 4:30 to 5:00 I could be sitting and writing my book proposal. 

	And I did that religiously, from the day after that meditation, the next morning it was 4:25 a.m., the alarm just got set back earlier. And I didn't miss a morning seven days a week for three months or something, until I got up to the point in the book proposal that said what's your platform, and my jaw dropped open, and I was like what?

Jaime:	Oh, crap. Okay, everybody that's listening, you have no excuse, I'm sorry. Okay, go ahead and continue.

Susan:	And one of my mentors Ryan Allison once said, and I've never forgotten it, it was one of the most wise things I've ever heard. He said there's always time for what's most important. And then he said that's not a slogan. That's not like a nice thing to say, it's just true.

Jaime:	It's believable. 

Susan:	It?s just a truism. You take a CEO of a multibillion dollar company, a Fortune 50 company, you can't get on his calendar for six months if you give someone a blowjob, pardon my French, there's just no way to see the guy. And he sees a woman that he has the hots for on an airplane, follows her, and suddenly there's time in his calendar to order roses, suddenly there's time in his calendar to next weekend off and take her to the Bahamas. 

	Like, I don?t care whatever you're thinking, if it's most important there's time for it, that's just the truth. There's always time for what's most important. 

Jaime:	You're so amazing. I know we have to start wrapping up soon. So you can give me tactically email wise one quick thing before I ask the last question, because I literally could talk to you for way too long.

Susan:	Yeah, yeah. So another thing that I think I really attribute my success to is investing in my education. I didn't assume that I knew how to do any of this. And I've spent a lot of money in the last couple years on mastermind groups and online courses. But I really recommend Jeff Walker?s system. I really do. And I somehow came to trust that man and just decided to put my head down, and just follow what he said to do. And so with tremendous rote, like painting by numbers, filling in the blanks, kind of like kindergarten focus, I grew my email list the way he told me to, up to 300 people, which is the number he said. 

	I did a seed launch exactly the way he said to do it. I put the exact words that he said to put into the email. I executed my seed launch. That made $11,000 and doubled my list. The webinar that I use to do that, it doubled my list from 300 to 600. There's a video, I think, I'm still on Jeff Walker?s ? if you go to jeffwalker.com, I think there's a video on that page that's me a year and a half ago talking about the early part of my journey, talking about how I got my list up to 10,000. 

	And I did it through doing launches. The best way to grow a list is with a launch. So if you have a business, where you could create an information product, then I really recommend just following that system, and just kind of putting cotton in your ears about everything else. I think there's a place in entrepreneurship, if you find a system, and it doesn?t have to be Jeff Walker?s system. That one happened to work for me, but if you find a system, at some point you got to avoid bright shiny object syndrome. 

	And you just got to put on blinders and just keep following the steps. And like get really clear about what's a distraction and what's like the next step on the path?

Jaime:	So this is why I get paid, right, because I have to tell people, now focus, now focus. But being able to actually do and follow one path and not 17,000 because you think that that's going to work better. I adore that you said that because I think the simplicity of it, people think that it's too simple, and that's exactly what it should be. So therefore we see the results, so therefore you can keep moving forward and changing that path. 

Susan:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Oh, you're awesome. So we?ll try and link up to that video too, because I would love, like I said, I would love to go super deep into the business side of things, maybe we?ll just have you back on later, which I really appreciate. But I know, to be as best I can with your time right now, because you are a busy woman, what's one action listeners can take this week to help move them forward towards their goal of a million?

Susan:	You told me before this started that this was going to be a question you were going to ask. And I had an answer, and I forgot what it was.

Jaime:	Good.

Susan:	Okay, let me just ?

Jaime:	Honesty, I love it.

Susan:	What is one action people can take right now this week to move them toward their goals? Well, what's coming to me is definitely not what I would have said before. So what's coming to me is a task that Ryan Allison had me do. I took his vision ? what's it called? Visionary Business School Program, and it was my first course that I ever took. It was really good. And he had me do a business plan, and a success plan. He had me write out a bunch of stuff. 

	You know, I would say write out your vision, write out your mission, if you don?t have those written out. And then write out who you're going to serve and how? Like, make a table for I'm going to help these people with this problem for this amount of money. I'm going to sell this number of them per month. I'm going to sell this product, or this course, or this whatever, I'm going to sell for this amount of money, this amount per month. And mine has changed dramatically over the two and half years that I've been in business. 

	I offer new products now. Some of the ones I thought would have be doing a lot of like one on one coaching, I don?t do at all anymore. It's a $50,000 a year to hire me, and I don?t take on any clients essentially. But however much it will change, it's so helpful to just have that really clear. How are you really serving people? What are you offering them and for how much? What?s your amount per month or per year, whatever goal that you?ve got, and just get really clear. If you don't have that, I think that you have some basic work to do, in terms of who you're serving and how?

Jaime:	Yeah, because people will jump to the end of the funnel and be like I need 17,000 things, and all it has to be figured out. And you're like let?s just simplify everything please and take one step in front of the other, in front of the other. We should create a little table for everybody, so they can do it. So that way they can actually do what you said they're going to do, because sometimes people will hear things, and then let it go in one ear and out the other ear, and then they just wasted an hour. 

	I don't think that's good for anybody. So make sure, number one I have to make sure I get your book as soon as it comes out. Tell us the date, and of course where we can go pick it up as soon as humanely possible?

Susan:	It's available March 21, 2017. It's already available for preorder on Amazon. So Bright Line Eating, B-R-I-G-H-T L-I-N-E, Bright Line Eating: The Science of Living Happy, Thin, and Free. And you can get it anywhere. It's going to be March 21st it will be, hopefully on front tables at Barnes & Noble and everywhere, everywhere.

Jaime:	Make sure everybody, even if you're not sure, take the quiz to see where we're at, and then make sure you go do this because it will change your business, let alone your life and children?s life, and all that fun stuff, but also what you're working so hard for.

Susan:	Yeah, foodfreedomquiz.com, foodfreedomquiz.com. And then if people want a free book, I don't know if they are all gone already, they might be, but go to brightlineeating.com/giveaway. And your little code word is millionaire.

Jaime:	If anyone can spell that. And you better be able to if you want to be a millionaire.

Susan:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Thank you so much for coming on today, Susan. It was amazing. And I really appreciate the work you do because people really, really need it.

Susan:	Oh, thanks Jaime. It's so delightful. And have me back anytime. I would talk with you anytime.

Jaime:	Seriously.

Susan:	It's so delightful, yeah.

Jaime:	Have an amazing day.

Susan:	You too my dear, bye.

Tags: business goals, entrepreneur podcast, eventual millionaire, getting in shape, go to market strategy, how to be a leader, jaime masters, millionaire habits, self discipline, susan peirce thompson, top entrepreneurs, top entrepreneurs books

Categories: All, Featured Millionaire Interview, Millionaire Interviews, Personal Development

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