How To Create A Successful App With Paul Kemp

App Entrepreneur and Founder of The App Guy – Paul Kemp

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Here’s what you’ll learn from Paul about How To Create A Successful App:

– Is the mobile app market still as hot as it was years ago?
– The simple and inexpensive “Starbucks test” you can do immediately to make sure you’re building something people want.
– Three “secrets” of leveraging Apple’s algorithm and secure your place at the top of the App store charts.
– How to create a buzz around your app and gain massive following.
– A little-known way to use Slack and Reddit communities to promote your app? and avoid cashing out on Facebook ads.

Tune in and listen: How To Create A Successful App With Paul Kemp

Paul’s Website:

TheAppGuy.co

Transcript: Download

Video Transcription provided by GMR Transcription Services.

Jaime Masters:	Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I'm Jaime Masters and today on the show, we have Paul Kemp. He is also a podcaster, make sure you go check out his podcast called the App Guide podcast. It's been running for over five years. You can also check him out at theappguide.co. Thanks so much for coming on the show today, Paul.

Paul Kemp:	Thank you for having me on, Jaime.

Jaime Masters:	So, podcaster to podcaster, I really appreciate this. So, number one, you've been having your show for a really, really, really long time. Why even start it to begin with?

Paul Kemp:	Well, it's wonderful because I was actually working in corporate banking at the time, several years ago, and I decided to get out of that whole thing. I had a kind of mid-life crisis as many of us do and I was looking for things to do. And I was kind of struggling, but then I decided to hone in on my strengths. And one of the strengths I've got is I'm really good people, and I love finding out about people, and meeting like-minded folks. So, I decided to start the show. I started my first one from Dubai, where I was taking a mini retirement at the time. And here we are, among 523 episodes in five years from.

Jaime Masters:	Congratulations. Now normally you don't hear people say, "I had a mid-life crisis, so I started a podcast." It's usually not what happens, but how did you end up doing the app stuff then? Was it the podcast was before or after the business?

Paul Kemp:	Well, I was involved in technology because I love technology and the iPhone was fairly new back then. It was getting a lot of attention. I absolutely fell in love with it, I had my first iPhone around about that time. And so, I wanted to do something that was related to apps. There are very, very few dedicated shows about apps. If you and go search the App Store for app podcast, there"s only a few. So, I really wanted to do a show about apps. I mean, I actually thought I"d struggle getting 20 guests and here we are on 523 different guests on my show. All pretty much dedicated towards the app space.

Jaime Masters:	See. Yeah, I didn"t think I could get any millionaires either. Look at this, look at us now. The first thing is though, is that why do you think that is? Because I feel the same way. When I look up anything having to do with apps, it was really, really hot for a while and then it sort of all fell off. But yet, there's more and more and more and more. So, why do you think that trend sort of tanked?

Paul Kemp:	Well, I"ll tell you why, it"s fallen off in a way that it"s fallen out of the press.

Jaime Masters:	Yes.

Paul Kemp:	But there are so many fascinating, unbelievable stories. And I know how you love stories, so one of my early episodes is episode 92. I was chatting with what"s become a really good friend and a very high impact on my life, a guy called Andreas Cabanas. And he was telling me a story of submitting his app which became a top six app. 

And he was submitting this from a bus in [inaudible] on it and he"s climbing some mountain, and he"s trying to get this remote internet signal, and he submits his app, and it goes straight up the charts. He makes tens of thousands of dollars with this app and he"s staying in a location that only cost him $1 a night. And I thought, "I"ve got to meet more of these people." So, that"s really what really kept me going is just meeting these fascinating individuals. 

Jaime Masters:	So, let"s actually dive into the actual creation of the app because in my - I came from software too and usually trying to do like an MVP, or a beta, or something in general before you release it to the entire world. And I know there"s a process for that, but how do you know whether those apps are going to go the top of the charts and or not? Are we just sort of throwing stuff out to see what sticks or do you do a lot of testing beforehand?

Paul Kemp:	Well, I could tell you this, actually fairly straightforward to get up the charts in the App Store. I mean I"ve had a - I"ve been involved in a number two hit on the App Store, number one hit with a music app, number two with a health app. And when you have a paid app, it"s fairly straightforward, you need probably two to three hundred app downloads per day. That"s all, to get into - depends on the category, but that"s not that many to get into the charts. 

So, if you have an audience behind the app and it"s ready to - legally download this app, it"s been waiting maybe a few weeks. Then you can get into the charts and I"ve got some interesting ways to get to " apps up the charts as well and get a good buzz around them. If it"s a free app, then it"s a whole different ball game. It becomes so much more challenging to try and get that attention, given that the App Store is dominated by Facebook, and Google, and Apple itself. It"s really hard to compete with those guys in the top charts.

Jaime Masters:	Oh, that makes so much sense. So, yeah. Tell us how to make the buzz, so that way people - because I"m assuming we can sort of leverage some of these pieces into regular business stuff too, or products, in general, or is it just app specific? So, how do you create that buzz?

Paul Kemp:	[Inaudible] very challenging question to ask because how do we create buzz when we just copy that blueprint. But one thing I would sort of urgently request to anyone listening to do is if it - apps get people all completely crazy. People think that building an app and launching it is just like the most innovative space, but also, it can be - you can end up burning so much cash.

And I"ve interviewed founders who have lost hundreds if not millions of dollars on the creation of apps. So, in terms of building a buzz, I"ve found the best thing is first of all, do not build the app until you test the market. And you can test it quite easily now. Put a landing page up, just get some initial attention to that, put it onto Reddit or - 

[Crosstalk]

Jaime Masters:	Yes. Okay, walk us through that whole process because everybody wants that piece because I don"t think people do enough foundational stuff. They"re like, "Oh, let"s go in and try this. Oh, we asked people. Oh, they said they wanted it." Go, right? So, let"s break this down and if you have any stories of any ones that you"ve done, whether they"ve worked and or not worked because I feel like there"s a grey area in this world. And most people don"t understand what makes a hit, the foundational side, right, and what people say at the very, very beginning before you actual create the app. And what doesn"t make a hit that you don"t actually create.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. So, in terms of the marketing then, I guess the first thing to do is start with the avatar of the NG, so who is using the app and get some really good feedback from a test audience. Build something that - you can actually build apps that only go on specific phones. You can demo the apps at a very early stage before you launch them. You could do soft launches, and then the full on hard launch. So, you can get like a bare bones app. Even an app that almost mimics an app, but is actually a website and get some really good test feedback from your potential users. 

I can"t believe how many people don"t do this, how many people don"t even speak to anyone apart from their own family about their app before they launch it. It"s crazy. I"ve had stories on my podcast where the developers have gone into Starbucks and just said - grab somebody and said, "Look, I"m going to buy you a free coffee, can you give me 10 minutes of your time. I want to go through my app with you." 

Get some - and actually seeing someone else go through your app is a wonderful experience because you - everything that you"ve been working on for a year, you"re like, "Well, of course they don"t know where this button," or, "Of course they don"t know where to press because it"s their first time seeing it." So, seeing it through a new user"s eyes as an early MVP, as an early app demo is critically important.

Jaime Masters:	So, how many of those do you need to get then? So, you're going to Starbucks and buying a bazillion people - right? So, how much is enough data - 

Paul Kemp:	Well -

Jaime Masters:	Before you go?

Paul Kemp:	Well, I've spoken to very successful app entrepreneurs who had just one person they've done that with. Just one, because they built an app for a very specific, unique person. And they've rolled that out. But the more you can get, the better. So, yes, if you can get a few hundred demos and then - and actually that is your potential audience as well if people are excited about your app if it's a consumer facing app. And actually, one thing we haven't spoken about is not all apps are particularly just consumer apps. There a lot of enterprise apps, business apps, as well to help professionals and business people.

Jaime Masters:	Okay, we're going to talk about that in just a second because that's a huge market that nobody actually talks about software wise and app wise. So, okay. Let's continue on the - if we are going to create this and we feel like we've talked to 25 people and they all thinks it's pretty cool, right? And they told you to move buttons, the UX is doing pretty well, so you're excited, right? 
What are those next steps to really make sure that - because it's a lot of time, and a lot of money, and a lot of everything. Especially for you to try and get all the buzz that you want to get. So, how do you know like, "Okay, I'm going all in on this one or this one I'm going to try and do way more marketing than any of the rest of them." How do you know?

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. Well, the first thing is I don?t think going all in is probably a wise choice as well. You can actually get some of the key features of the app, make the app actually very, very specific to the problem you?re trying to solve. I?ve learned from my 500 odd episodes, solving a problem is still as relevant in the app world as it is in the software world in any kind of business that you approach. So, is it solving a particular pain point, a problem, that the users are facing? 

And then once you do that, once you?ve got that problem that you?re solving, build an app that is [inaudible] only focusing on very few features. In fact, try to take away features because there is something called - an app, it?s called feature creep. I don?t know if you?ve heard of that, but feature creep is where you just add on - because you can do so much stuff with apps now. They are super computers in our pockets, so you add on all these different functionalities. 

And before you know where you are, you?ve built something that is irrelevant. So, making sure you don?t have feature creep is another really important lesson to do. Build those apps with minimal features, and then do a soft launch to an audience that you have already prepped in advance using all the techniques from previous guests. I?m sure I?ve spoken to you about prelaunch of a product or service.

Jaime Masters:	Okay. So, before we get into prelaunch, because I think that?s really important. How do you figure out key differentiators? How do you do that USP? Especially when you're trying to make less features and there's probably a lot of other apps that are quite similar and or have over features. So, how did you make sure that it's you're not just one of many in a sea of the same?

Paul Kemp:	Again, that's really hard. I'm actually thinking back to an episode I had with the founder of Rebel Hack. And his whole business model is about watching [inaudible]. The biggest way of getting more downloads, in a way, is figuring out those bits within the app that are the best features that users want. Figuring out where to ask them for reviews, getting a whole wave of early reviews is also very, very important. In fact, let me give you the algorithm that Apple tends to use. It's not scientifically proven, but we do know that algorithm is based on three things. 

The first thing is the velocity of downloads. Within the first seven days, they actually reward you a little bit more for each download. So, that's highly important. The second that Apple does - and I learned from a wonderful episode with Wes McCabe, he's from a company called Tower Censor. The second thing that Apple do is they look at reviews, and so it's the number of downloads, the reviews, and then the velocity of downloads. Three things that you tend to try to work on to get the maximum amount of benefit from Apple's algorithm, the way they put your app in the App Store, and showcase it.

Jaime Masters:	Just like a podcast. Yeah, it's kind of a pain in the butt, in general.

Paul Kemp:	Right, yeah. You're the expert.

Jaime Masters:	You're like, "Go, go, go!" Well, I mean what's crazy though - I mean, I know and this is when we're recording it that for - well, for many, many months Apple has stopped the new and no worthy list. It put a freeze - so, what sucks is you now go, "Okay, this is what it is," fingers crossed. When I actually launch, it's still going to be that, and that's the thing that's a pain in the butt. Especially because we're work on platform specific stuff like you're doing. You're going, "Okay, iPhone. Let's 'fingers crossed' hope that this all goes well." Do you really pay attention to the other App Stores besides just Apple?

Paul Kemp:	Well, I tend to focus on Apple because a lot of the entrepreneurs seem to start with Apple. IOS is the playground for many of the individuals I actually end up interviewing. So, I mean there are very successful apps that only focus on Android. And to be fair, Apple and Android, I mean they're the two. I can't even imagine there's an App Store for others, although I did have an episode where we talked to some interesting entrepreneurs who were building apps for the other teleco companies who are trying to get into this space because everyone is seeing the success of the Apple store, and the people play store. 

And it's pretty much 50/50 between the two of those. So, these other teleco's trying to get in and create their own App Stores. And you can get some really good success in cloning your app and putting it into other App Stores which is an often overlooked feature as well - in terms of - at least then you don't compete with so many people because there's tens of millions of developers in the - but it tends to be IOS iPhones I focus on.

Jaime Masters:	Awesome. Yeah, well distribution, right? You might as well get in front of the same amount of people with the same stuff if you can, if it doesn't take too much longer. Now, a question. So, let's talk about prelaunch really quick and then I want to go into the point of the longevity because, yes, the big bump at the beginning - the launch - really matters to make sure you've got enough people using it. 

But then afterwards, like even your 500 podcast episodes, right? You have the big bump at first, and then you actually have to keep doing it, and you actually having to keep trying to grow it. So, let's talk about prelaunch really quick, and then I want to talk about the longevity side. So, what would you do prelaunch wise to really set yourself up and how long of a prelaunch?

Paul Kemp:	Okay. Well, it tends to be several weeks in terms of prelaunch, getting a prerecorded little video, short video, a website, a landing page, building up an audience through all the techniques. I'm sure - 

[Crosstalk]

Jaime Masters:	Through what? Yeah, tell me what though works. Yeah. So, I want - 

Paul Kemp:	Yeah, so my - 

[Crosstalk]

Jaime Masters:	I want to know what works for us best.

Paul Kemp:	Okay. So, like building up an email list, getting onto other people's email lists, approaching high influencers in the space. So, for example, like Rebel Slack communities where we know the owners, the admins, and they can actually post to their admins. I mean Slack was actually one of the apps that was most mentioned last year in terms of the popularity in the app.

Jaime Masters:	How do you get them to say yes though? Asking high influencers is tough for people. How would you even go about doing that?

Paul Kemp:	Well to be fair, the easiest way is just to pay them. You just can pay them, and many of them have a newsletter, and they'll have like a little sponsor feature. So, you can actually just pay to - 

Jaime Masters:	How much are you - 

Paul Kemp:	Go out to their audience.

Jaime Masters:	Okay, tell me - yes. Tell me more about this.

Paul Kemp:	So, yeah - 

Jaime Masters:	I don't think people talk about this enough.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah, well money talks. And so, given that you are likely to spend tens of thousands on Facebook ads, possibly, it's very worthwhile pursuing the payment of Slack communities and influencers. So, for - I paid in the past anywhere between $200, $500 for maybe up to four announcements into different communities. And so, it can range. If you go to someone who is ' they should have at least an email list of 2,000 to 40,000 which makes it worth it. And well, yeah. You can get that ' 

[Crosstalk]

Jaime Masters:	How do you find that?

[Crosstalk]

Jaime Masters:	So, I guess the influencers that seems a little bit easier in this specific space or having the same avatar. But how do you find the Slack communities or the people that actually have a newsletter that you can pay them?

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. I guess one of the big things to come out of my podcast is the value of your network and that's why I've been really building up my network. So, the best thing is to put an email out to your network, either through LinkedIn. One thing I often do is download the emails from my LinkedIn, go through all the people I know, put them into an email list, and then email them out big challenges that I have. One of the big challenges could be that I am looking for influencers to email out for the announcement of a launch of an app. And to be fair, if the story is good, the pitch is good, the idea is good. Then you'll get some good responses. Yeah.
Jaime Masters:	So, you email out your - I want to see like an example of what this is. Number one, that's really impressive that you're willing to email friends and influencers what your biggest challenges are. And what does one of the emails look like, and can I see one, and what happened? I want one of the stories from - 

Paul Kemp:	Yeah.

Jaime Masters:	How that worked for you.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah, okay. So, let me just give you one that's a very recent story. I am in the process of launching a service that builds stickers apps because the problem I'm trying to solve - I mean I'm actually taking my own advice which rather strange in the space, but I've seen a problem. The problem is that a lot of these platforms like YouTube, and Facebook, and others allow you to be an audience, but they are now sort of really messing creators around because - especially YouTube. YouTube's ad revenue model is becoming very challenging for the creators. So, the creators are looking for alternative ways to make income. 

Some of them do stuff offline like sell t-shirts, but my big idea - and I'm happy to share this with you - is that these creators need to have a sticker app, so people can share something that's unique to their tribes, their community. And so usually, it's cartoon figures of the creator itself, the things that they're talking about. You'll get 40 odd stickers in this app, and then they can sell the app for $2.99 on the App Store, and keep 70 percent of the profits. So, I'm trying to meet with top influencers. So, what I've done then, is I have extracted my emails from LinkedIn, put them into a service. 

A service I love at the moment from my good friend called Martin is getreview.co. Getreview.co. And then I can email a very lovely, like challenges to the top - I've got about 2,500 LinkedIn connections. So, I email 2,500 people and just say, "Look, we're connected. I've got a big challenge right now. I am seeking YouTube creators and influencers for my stickers app. Can you help me out? Do you anything?" Now the thing I use is, "Do you know anyone interesting to talk to?" So, I'm not sort of overtly asking them for a sale.

Jaime Masters:	Yes.

Paul Kemp:	It's not a cold call pitch. It's just asking them for help and given that I'm constantly giving back, helping, doing introductions. Then a lot of people do help. And so, I did that and only, like this week, have I had some really good responses. One of them, in fact, from one of my ex guests. I'm very good at keeping my network alive and healthy. And this contact has 60,000 developers, he's on the board of the Developer Alliance. And he wants to help out, so hopefully that gives you enough specific details on how - 

Jaime Masters:	Yes. Is there any way we can see what that - because everybody wants what those emails look like because they're afraid to send something that's too pitchy, or too not, or something like that. Can I get that actual challenge email, so we can say the way you worded it? And maybe my audience will be able to help you too, so there.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. I'll tell you, it's quite easy. You can go to the app guide and look at some of the past issues, and you'll see - I'm actually quite public about putting my challenges down and you'll see some of those. I think it's issue number 12 is one where I pitched that I've got a big challenge with regards to stickers apps. And that was the one I got a good response from.

Jaime Masters:	Killer. See, I love this stuff and people won't necessarily think to go, "Oh, I'm just going to tell absolutely everyone, 2,500 people at once. Yay! Go!"

Paul Kemp:	Yeah.

Jaime Masters:	But, hey, saves you so much time compared to reaching out and going, "Oh, on Facebook, who do I know?" And messaging them specifically. I love that. Okay. So, let's actually dive in really quick, if we can, to what you were talking about. The enterprise side of things because I feel like software - SaaS companies - all that stuff is hot right now. Everybody wants to start a SaaS company, it's crazy. And so, it's funny that we figure that regular software and apps are so different. So, how do you integrate that, or how do you create, or find the people that need software as a service on the app side of things? It doesn't even have to be a SaaS company, but software in general, the proprietary stuff.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. I'm going to answer that Jaime, there is one more thing I just wanted to mention on the previous question in - 

Jaime Masters:	Okay.

Paul Kemp:	Terms of the launch. I did do a recent episode with a guy called Demetri Draguloth and we talked extensively about how to get influencers, and press, and lots of examples of actual emails that you can reach out to, top influencers and get a reaction. It's a wonderful way of making connections and getting what you need. So, answering your question, the business specifics of it, one of the - the wonderful lessons I?ve learned from the podcast is to look in the business world for lots of examples of people still doing things the old fashion way. 

And I'm talking about Microsoft Excel. Any business that is still requiring the use of Microsoft Excel, that is somewhere where you can look at and absolutely - really make a big difference in the market because these companies - so many of them - and I've got a story, but it's not a particularly nice story - all of your - 

Jaime Masters:	Good, I like it.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. It was quite a controversial episode I had. I mean, I just stumble across these app entrepreneurs and I don't know. I just get quite a lot of solicitation from potential app entrepreneurs. And I just agreed to interview this guy. He discovered that the health industry do experiment on mice - pretty nasty. But it's a billion plus dollar industry. The infantry for these mice.

Jaime Masters:	Amazing.

Paul Kemp:	Now the infantry is still using Microsoft Excel to keep track of all these poor little mice that go to the labs. So, he built an app to actually keep hold of this infantry. Now, it's a completely bizarre example, but if you can think at that detail that that's a problem, I mean there's got to be a lot better opportunities out there to figure out which businesses are still using Excel. And it's trying to work out what an app can do that's much better.

Jaime Masters:	So, why an app and why not a web - like an online web ATI or something like that too? If you go after somebody and go, "Oh, I can help your Excel," and they're currently using laptops, why is an app better?

Paul Kemp:	Right. Not always -n app is not necessarily always the best answer. But the reason it is in many of these cases because it's on you. It's right there in your hands. You pull out your phone, it can be used by all the different employees you have - smartphones. And the fact is, that it's always on you whereas a laptop, it might be in your office or it might be ' you have to go upstairs if it's in your home. 

A phone is on you all the time. So, any particular business needs that require an immediate response - and the fact is, we often forget, these are not just laptops in our pocket, they are super computers. I had a wonderful example of interviewing a guy, his name is Christian Ruefet. And what he's doing is he's - and this is a business application. Let me give you a wonderful story, okay? And these are the sorts of things I discuss on the podcast. I think he's doing is he'sit's episode 510. So - 

Jaime Masters:	How do you remember what episode they are? Alright, go ahead.

Paul Kemp:	I don't know. I just love what I do. And so, I'm speaking with Christian and he is reminding us that an iPhone is a super computer. And so, he has a way of putting, what they call an FTK, which is a simple piece of software into apps that are relying on the geolocation, okay? And what he can do is he can detect the small vibrations, even when you go over a pothole in a car, he can detect that from the phone that records a piece of data, he gets the data, he aggregates the data up, and he then sells that data back to the local government who are very interested in where are the holes in their road. How cool is that?

Jaime Masters:	What? The road we -

Paul Kemp:	Yeah.

Jaime Masters:	Well, that's weird that they're tracking that close. But the world that we live in, that's nuts. Well, data's a big thing. And so, whoever collects the most data wins, at least that's what it feels like right now 

Paul Kemp:	Yeah.

Jaime Masters:	Because everybody wants the information that we have. How the heck does he come - how did he connect those dots? Because I think that's what's interesting. We're entrepreneurs, we have lots of opportunities. We love looking and finding opportunities. That sounds so crazy to connect those two dots. Does that make sense?

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. So, he's using - I'm not saying he's using my themes, but he's certainly using the themes I've learned. One, he's trying to figure out a problem. The problem right now is monetizing apps. And what Christian has done is that he has figured out there must be an alternative way of putting stupid ads in these apps. 

And none of us like - okay, it's about like I don't have any more ads in my podcast because I just - no one likes ads. And so, he's overcome that problem by saying, "Look, the data is incredibly important." Now telecom - that is another example he gives - telecom companies are desperately wanting data on how good their 3G signals are and 4G. Yeah. So, he will use apps that are sort of using the location and you agreed to these things when you accept - 

Jaime Masters:	Yeah.

Paul Kemp:	The app to use your location - 

Jaime Masters:	When you read the - yeah, exactly.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah.
 
Jaime Masters:	That's why mine all turned off.

Paul Kemp:	I don't think there's a privacy issue because at the end of the day, he's aggregating the entire data up, and then selling it at an aggregate basis - 

Jaime Masters:	Yeah.

Paul Kemp:	To the teleco's to say, "Look, you may have a problem with your coverage in this location."

Jaime Masters:	Yeah. Jaime's over here, go stalk her. Yeah, that's good.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. But what's happening is that he's getting paid by the telecom companies for that data and he's giving a cut of those revenues back to the app developer. So, he's overcoming his core problem which is how to make money from an app with an ad.

Jaime Masters:	That's genius. I love it.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah.

Jaime Masters:	Alright. I know we have to start wrapping up in just a second. But what I wanted to talk about before was that longevity piece that we didn't get to. So, how do we make sure that it keeps going? Because no offense, we're excited when it launches. This is with any business. Super excited podcast whatever it is, and then it just sort of goes on forever. So, how do we make sure that longevity and we keep growing in general?

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. Jaime, it's a very big challenge. It's one of the reasons why I actually try and make my podcast as genuine as possible because there's so many entrepreneurs, especially fall in love with the app space and think they're going to be the next -

Jaime Masters:	Yep.

Paul Kemp:	WhatsApp or Instagram. Those are all really wonderful stories, but they're like one in a - it literally is now one in a million chance with the App Store because there's over a million apps you have to compete with. So, it's actually easier to win the lottery than to make money with apps. So, the first thing I would stress is - I'm guessing - ask yourself the questions before you build an app, "What do I want to achieve?" 

If you want to achieve a monthly income that's reasonable living, then there's a whole wave of wonderful developers, and business entrepreneurs, appreneurs I like to call them, who are living off the revenue streams of the App Store. And they do partake [inaudible] ASO which is a bit like ESO, but for the App Stores. And you can maintain a very nice, regular income from a regular download. It's not going to be a blockbuster like Instagram, but it is going to give you - and certainly gives me - the lifestyle where you can take many retirements. I've taken many retirements - Bali, and to Dubai, and other places. 

But in terms of keeping the app going, well, then it comes down to the press - getting free press - appointing a press agent. I know some very interesting people who get you onto some excellent podcasts and some - into some blogs, and into the tech views, and a list of stuff. And the other thing is really make sure the app has a viral element within it because apps are incredible viral. And you can make apps even more viral by having a viral nature within the app. Whereas, for instance, you have to get someone else to download the app and that?s the way you can keep downloads going.

Jaime Masters:	Do you have data on the press agent stuff? Because a lot of people are like, "Oh, go on podcasts." And you know this part - go on blogs. And then when we actually - because I work with clients - when you actually go do that, sometimes it's hit or miss. Sometimes you're like, "Wow, that one gave us this many new whatever which was amazing. Let's do that more." But you don't totally know. Do you have any data or anything like that on how we can tell what works versus what doesn't work beforehand or we just hire one of these guys, and cross our fingers, and go, "Hopefully this will work?"

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. I'm trying to think of my own experience in terms of the actual number of downloads. So, I am in the top 10 of the world's most active makers on platform Product Ton. And hopefully, many of you on this have come across Product Ton, but I've launched many apps on there. If I get on Product Ton, then I can get anywhere between 300 to 1,00 downloads. Sometimes I've had occasions where I've had about 5,000 downloads, but that's off the back of about 20,000 visitors. 

So, it's a really good conversion rate. And so, that's Product Ton app. And very, very good over the last few years of getting featured and byproduct terms and actually getting those downloads. So, there's one [inaudible] off the top of my head in terms of number of downloads.

Jaime Masters:	That's amazing. I'm sure people are like, "So, how can I buy that from him?" So, that way - right?

[Crosstalk]

Jaime Masters:	Yeah, go ahead.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah, no. Product Ton is - it's how I worked with one of my good friends from the - I met him through the podcast and we got this number to hit. And it actually beat Grand Theft Auto in the App Store and it beat Snoop Dogg on Product Ton as well. And it was a wonderful, big, huge spike and basically because of that, it's kept going. It's a wonderful health app and it continuously is in the top five of the health category on the App Store.

Jaime Masters:	Really? What is it? If you don?t - 

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. It's called - 

Jaime Masters:	Mind me asking.

Paul Kemp:	Yeah. It's called Fit Men Cook. Fit Men Cook.

Jaime Masters:	Oh.

Paul Kemp:	And I've got a blog post how I was involved in the early launch of that.

Jaime Masters:	Nice.

Paul Kemp:	And - 

Jaime Masters:	The apps not for me - no.

Paul Kemp:	Well, that's the thing. Fit Men Cook is for everyone.

Jaime Masters:	I know, I need to find a fit man to cook. No. That's awesome. But did you know it was going to be as big of a hit before you did it' Were you like, "Oh, this is going to be big!"

Paul Kemp:	To be fair, I didn't actually take any of my own advice on that. I was asked [inaudible]. And I had these strategies and we used the strategies. There was a number of different strategies and I mean I'll happily share with you a blog post. It's still a very relevant blog post, even though it was from a few years ago now. And it certainly was a big spike because of certain Product Tons, and Reddit, and then the influence of Instagram with the founder.

Jaime Masters:	See, it just depends on which industry you're in. Reddit is huge for so many places. And Product Ton is huge for so many places. But it depends on what industry you're in and what you're trying to sell. There's different ones of these amazingly, huge audiences and you just have to figure out which ones work the best for you. And then, not game the system, but you know what I mean. Use it to your advantage, I guess we could say - 

Paul Kemp:	Yeah.

Jaime Masters:	In general. So, I love - 

Paul Kemp:	Just to summarize on that Jaime, I know you're wrapping, but just to summarize on it. The reason I do the podcast, I mean I'm up to 500 something episodes and I'm still trying to find out the whole thing about which works, which doesn't. And it's just a never-ending cycle of information about how we go about it. So, it's whatever works for your industry.
Jaime Masters:	See, I feel the exact - I ask people that I interview and I work with my clients so I can see the data on the ground because I'm always trying to know, "What's working right now? Let's be more efficient, share our marketing dollars. Let's try," it's a game. It's a fun game, thank goodness. But it's more of a fun game when you work with clients, then you get all sorts of data all back at once and you can sort of see the whole landscape, the way it goes. But - 

[Crosstalk]

Paul Kemp:	If you've never go on Product Ton, then you should definitely go on Product Ton and it is free. But my advice is to get a big influencer to post you. And that's where I do have a good network of influencers who I work with on Product Ton that have posted us. We've got some really good traction, but it cannot be gained. It really is then a case of - the community has to like the app. 

And if they do, wonderful. You get this wonderful - and in fact, I've had an app that I put on Product Ton, a few days later, Apple featured it in the App Store. And it became like a top featured app in the App Store. So, Apple are actually looking at Product Ton to see which to call out to feature.

Jaime Masters:	Well, and that's what's so amazing is you can't just have a big company and go and pay a ton of money. It's actually - like I tried putting a post on Reddit and I was just asking questions. And they're like, "You're not part of this group." And I got kicked off and I was like, "I used to be a Reddit user, come on guys. I'm asking a question." But they are so particular which I think is good because nowadays anybody can, "Game," some of the bigger systems and that sucks. You don't want people to just buy their way onto whatever it is because all the little guys get squished and even the better apps might not necessarily make it that way. 

So, I think it's an amazing thing. But again, like you said, it takes a lot of time and effort to know all the influencers, to really try and make sure that it works instead of actually gaming the system. Who knew? When you actually do it right, it kind of works. Well, takes a long time I'm sure, 500 episodes later. Alright, I know we have to start wrapping up, so I'm going to ask you the question I ask everyone. And it's what one action listeners can take this week to help move them forward towards their goal of a million?

Paul Kemp:	Yeah, sure. Well, it's certainly the thing has helped me the most in my journey towards a million and is take whatever revenue [inaudible] - nothing to do with apps, but I'm going to give you best, best tip. Take whatever revenue they have right now and lock in 10 percent and put into an index fund, and aggregate that over time because every time I look at the shares that have accumulated as a result of all the stuff I did in the past. 

It really is the route to becoming a millionaire. So, whatever income they have, lock away 10 percent. It goes into a very low paying index fund that tracks the stock market, and you diversify that, and just ignore it. Don't sell it, don't trade it, just keep it, and over the years you will end up a millionaire for sure.

Jaime Masters:	Man, I need - those so many more questions that I want to ask about this because I - we've debates and not only my household, but in general over, "Do we go business? Do we go real estate? Do we go investment and which do we," anyway that's a total side, but I really appreciate that. I agree a thousand percent on the 10 percent profit. 

It's been coming up over and over and over again. Please save your money people! That's the whole point. You can make a millionaire dollars and spend a million and one dollars. And you're not a millionaire, I don't know what to tell you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Tell us where we can find more about you, where we can sign up for your podcast, and all that fun stuff.

Paul Kemp:	Sure, it's very simple. Type the appguide.co. Appguide.co and can then see and get free access to the 500 plus interviews. We've got all founders or alternatively, just search Paul Kemp in your favorite podcasting app. Paul Kemp and you'll see me all over the place, but particularly the App Guide is what you need to look for.

Jaime Masters:	Awesome. Thanks so much for coming on the show today, I really appreciate it.

Paul Kemp:	Thanks, Jaime.

Tags: Business Owner, create mobile app, entrepreneur podcast, eventual millionaire, jaime masters, millionaire entrepreneurs, Mobile App, mobile app business, mobile app design, mobile app development, mobile app programming, mobile development, Paul Kemp, podcast, start-ups, startup entrepreneur, startups, top entrepreneurs

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