Business Lessons From The Octagon With Bruce Buffer

Octagon announcer for the UFC. Semi-pro Poker player, film buff, surfer, lover of class & passion – Bruce Buffer

The Big Rule of Business that Bruce lives by since he was 19 years old. What he learned from his father (a Marine Corps drill instructor) about voice projection, how to keep your voice strong and clear at all times, and why the best thing you can do for your business right now is to stay healthy. The surprising discovery of a celebrity brother he never knew he had and the backstory of the legendary “Let’s get ready to rumble!” phrase. How Bruce can train any salesmen to literally “pee more money”.

Check out BruceBuffer.comfor more info!

Thanks so much for listening!

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Jaime:	Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I'm Jaime Tardy, and I am so excited, you have no idea, that Bruce Buffer is on the show today.  You guys know I do this all the time.  I never get nervous, but I am so excited.  Bruce does the announcing for UFC.  You can check him out at BruceBuffer.com.  He also has an amazing book called It's Time.  Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Bruce:	It's my pleasure.  No, sincerely, Jaime, I really appreciate it.

Jaime:	You have no idea like I've been tweeting about this and putting it on Facebook because I'm wearing my UFC shirt today.  I am obsessed.  People know I'm a little bit crazy obsessed.

Bruce:	Love it.

Jaime:	I know, right?  Can you tell me a little bit about - because you've been doing it for 20 years, which is insane.

Bruce:	Yeah.

Jaime:	Did you know that UFC would be as huge as it is right now?

Bruce:	Yeah, I can honestly say that in my nature in business that I've had the pleasure of picking three things that were gonna be big.  One was of course, as I write about in my book, my relationship with my brother I never knew I had, my half-brother, the famous announcer Michael Buffer, and the brand Let's Get Ready to Rumble.  When I started with that, which I'm sure we'll touch on, and then being a martial artist since I was 12 and training in martial arts and having a lot of fights and understanding the fighting mode and knowing what it's like to be hit because you never know who you are till you get punched in the face.  It's a simple adage I always believe.  

When the UFC came on the scene, I was captivated by it, but it was more of a spectacle back then, and it was a spectacle in the old Bloodsport Jean-Claude Van Damme movie where what style's the best style.  The term mixed martial arts did not actually become formed until about seven or eight years into the life of the sport, which started in 1993 with the first UFC.  So I actually got my brother involved in it, and then I only had him three shows, and then I wanted to do it, and I went after him.

The only way I could get the job, because they wouldn't hire me, was that I actually became a manager of fires, and I became a manager of firing Scott DiPippo for Awesome, and I got him into to UFC 8 in Puerto Rico, which was 20 years ago February 16th in Bayamon, Puerto Rico.  I was allowed to go down there with my fighter, so I called the owner, and this is the thing about business.  If you want something, if you want the sale, if you want the job, it's really very simple.  You have to ask for it.  Don't wait for people to come to you.  

People are like cattle.  They need to be prodded, okay, whether you're the CEO of a company or you're working down in a shipping room packing boxes, okay.  It's just the nature of the beast, so ask for the job.  So I did, and he let me announce the prelims, and I thought, "Oh, great.  Now hire me.  You need me in there.  I've got the media contacts.  I wanna make this sport big.  I do believe in, to your question, Jaime, this is gonna one of the biggest things ever in sports, but there's a lot of refinement needed here, and I wanna be part of that.  

The only way I can do that is to be the announcer and grow with the sport, right, and then I can do all my superfluous activity on the outside and be a 24/7 ambassador, which I pride myself on being."  Well, that fell on deaf ears, right?  So now it's six months go by, and they call me, and they say, "Well, listen, we need you to Birmingham, Alabama, or Dothan, Alabama, in two days.  You can announce all of UFC 10.  The other announcer can't make it.  

I'm in the hospital with my mom, and she just had a major operation, and if you ever see the Rocky movies where his wife, Adrian, she doesn't want him to fight, and she's pregnant.  She's in the hospital.  She's in a coma.  He can't train.  He can't win.  Well, I got the phone call in the room while my mother's recuperating, and she overheard me talking and how they're asking me to come down.  I say, "I gotta talk to my mom.  The most important thing to me is my family."  

I hung up the phone.  She looked at me, and she said, "What was that?"  I told her.  She goes like this.  It was like Adrian.  Go.  You gotta go, right?  Boom, I'm outta there.  I'm down there.  I do the job.  I do it.  I think, "Oh, you're gonna hire me now."  They hire somebody else.

Jaime:	What?

Bruce:	They hired somebody else.  It was a friend, from what I understand, of the producer.  You know that goes, okay, Jaime?

Jaime:	Yes, I do.

Bruce:	Well, he was nervous in the service when I saw him on TV and had a good voice, but he didn't have the other - I could see where I could get at this, right.  So I flew to New York on a business trip.  I went to their offices.  I pitched them again.  I'm doing everything I can.  Deaf ears.  Then they call me, and they say, "We're filming the TV show Friends," which was a huge and is one of the biggest TV shows ever.

Jaime:	Yeah.

Bruce:	"And they wanna have the real announcer there instead of a voiceover, and Warner Brothers wants to come down and pick up tape and everything because they asked if you would do the job, and do you wanna co-star as yourself?"  I said, "Yeah, sure, why not?"  But at the back of my mind I'm thinking, "Okay, this is a ploy for me to talk to the owner again," so I said, "Okay, I'll do that, but you gotta meet me on the set tomorrow."  So I met them on the set, and I said, "Look, Rob."  Robert Meyer was his name.  I said, "Robert."  Remember, guys, again: ask for the job.  

So I said, "Robert, I feel like the girl waiting for a date to the prom.  It's been a year and a half.  If I don't get asked out today, I'm never gonna ask again, okay.  Let's make a deal.  I wanna help you build this fort, build this franchise to be the biggest thing ever in sports, and now you're on the biggest comedy show on TV, and I'm co-starring as myself as the announcer.  They're gonna think I'm the announcer.  Let's do this."  Best poker hand I ever played in my life, best poker hand.  Announced every show for the next 18 years and probably missed about 15 shows in the last year.

Jaime:	Would you have called it quits on asking him if you didn't?

Bruce:	I told myself because whenever you set out in business, you need to have the clarification of a goal, and I think time goals are very important because one thing we learn in economics is the opportunity costs of time involved in doing whatever endeavor you're pursuing, much less even a relationship with a boyfriend or a girlfriend, okay.  Do you want this to go on, or is somebody gonna say something now?  It's been a year and a half.  Get off the stick and marry me, right.

So that's basically what I was saying to Robert Meyer.  Let's get married.  Let's build this thing in a business way, and we'll make it happen, and it was incredible.  It was great.  Then I got a call about six years later where he said, "I've got some good news and some bad news."  I said, "What?"  He said, "Well, the bad news is I sold the UFC.  The good news is I sold it to Dana White and the Fertitta Brothers, and they wanna keep you on."  So yay.

Jaime:	Yeah.

Bruce:	Yay, okay, so then it was a whole new venture at that point because even though I thought it was gonna get big, it was the fastest-growing pay-per-view to the point of 300,000 or more buys, and then John McCain came out with this campaign against us calling it human cockfighting.  As a result, and this is part of the thing in business.  

You're gonna get knocked down to the canvas, but when you get knocked down to the canvas, if you're not passionate about your business, if you don't believe in your product, you're not gonna get up and do what it takes to win that game again.  So now we got knocked down, and DirectTV and the Internet kept us alive.  We went from being available in 100 million homes down to 14, 15 million homes, which drastically reduces the amount of pay-per-view and exposure, right?

Jaime:	Yeah, definitely [inaudible] [00:09:03] revenue, you know what I mean?  

Bruce:	Yeah.

Jaime:	That's huge.

Bruce:	These offices used to have 30, 40 people in them.  I would go there in the end, and there was maybe a skeleton crew of five, so the writing was on the wall.  That's why it was a good time to sell it.  Dana White and the Fertitta Brothers bought it for $2 million.  Then they went $44 million in the hole during the first four years only to create the Ultimate Fighter, which they rolled $10 million of their own money on believing it would help it, and they were gonna sell it before that.  Then we had this incredible finale to the first series and one of the greatest fights ever, and I think at a peak 12 million people tuned in on Spike.  

So suddenly now we're the hit.  We make Spike.  Spike makes us, a relationship made in heaven until we get sold to Fox, but that was a matter of money.  Fox paid a reported over $100 million a year to televise the UFC, and that's not counting the revenue they're getting from Brazil and everywhere else where they're shown.  I think I'm on TV daily on almost a billion TV sets around the world now, which is phenomenal, but I'm upset about one thing.  

You know what that is?  When I do movies and TV, we're SAG union, right, so every time they replay Friends, I get that little check in the mail, and I still do 20 years later, because that was '96, of $50.00 to $100.00 every month.  It's so much fun to open that little check.

Jaime:	Yay.

Bruce:	Free lunch.  They can repeat the fights all the time, and no residual fee for any repeat, and literally I'm repeated on TV every day.  I just got back from the gym, and at the gym I'm doing cardio, and I'm watching.  God, SAG, where are you?  

Jaime:	That's insane and really annoying, not that I'm sure you don't get paid a ridiculous amount, so you're happy with that for sure.

Bruce:	Yeah.

Jaime:	So No. 1, I actually saw Dana White speak.  I tried to get him on the show.  He said, "Anything for you, darling" and then ignored me, which is not good, but anyway, so I heard his whole story, which is so interesting.  So you were right there as he was going up and down.  Were your emotions going up and down with this, too, because you seemed you were so all in?

Bruce:	I'm all in because my job is - the show's not about me.  The show's about for me the job that I'm humbled and honored to be able to do, and I've gotta go out there every night, and what I do is I take a mindset, and this is very key when you're in business.  One of the things that happened years ago is that I've owned member companies, my first corporation, when I was 19, okay.  When I met my brother Michael, which is my long lost half-brother that I only found out was my brother at 28, I owned two very successful companies: the beach house in the marina, the whole bit, living the life, not that I never stopped living a pleasurable life.  

That's a part that I enjoy, but I wasn't passionate, and I think passion's a very big thing.  For people in business, when you do get knocked down the way Dana's been knocked down and the Fertittas knocked down, it's not just about the big pocketbook because at one point, that pocketbook closes.  People can only be deep pockets for so long, and they'll stop putting the money in the well.  As a business owner and entrepreneur, you need to know not just from a time standpoint when it's gonna work and when it's not, you also have to know from a financial standpoint.  I've been victim of this, too, in the past, because you really need to fail before you really can pleasurably enjoy what success is all about.

I'm an OPMer now; not just meaning Other People's Money, but other people's everything.  In this business world today, you can surround yourself with successful people to help you build a business without even having an office to house them in.  This is an automated society today, and I like to surround myself with people that are positive and people that are passionate about what they do.  I have a three-foot theory about life that I try to make everybody happy, and I try to make everybody money around me, okay.

Jaime:	[Inaudible] [00:12:44].

Bruce:	And enjoy it because if it happens around me in the karmic way that I love to live my life, it will all come back to me in spades.  So I'm interested about making the people around me successful.  So when I walk in that Octagon, it's my first night every night, and I go out there with passion.  I throw it on the floor.  I let it fly.  I blow my ACL in the Octagon.  I rip my back open.  I've done all of that.  But you know what, I'm not fighting.  Big deal, the announcer hurt his knee.  Oh.  It's like these guys are putting their blood, sweat and tears on the line.  Show must always go on, the oldest adage in Hollywood.  Show can always go on no matter how I am.

Jaime:	How did you know that this is your thing?  So especially when you were 19, business was apparently your thing, but how do you find out that announcing is a huge strength of yours?

Bruce:	My brother Michael, who's the legendary Let's Get Ready to Rumble announcer, one of the greatest announcers of all time, the greatest announcer of all time in my opinion, and somebody just acquainted a phrase.  Somebody said once that he's like a fine bottle of Bordeaux, and I'm like a shot of Jack Daniels, and I actually love that comparison.

Jaime:	Oh, my gosh, that's awesome.

Bruce:	Yeah, so my dad was a Marine Corps drill instructor, and he was in the Marines for 13 years.  I remember when I was a kid, I would walk in a room and go, "Hi, Dad."  He'd go, "Son, project your voice.  Let them know you're in the room.  Walk in like you own it," right?  I used to get this all the time, and he'd say that to me.  He said, "Look, when I was a Marine instructor, and I had all these recruits out, and half these guys could just kick my butt and wipe the floor with me, the whole process of intimidation I had was my voice, and that's your key, too, in life.  

"Your voice is your first step.  Your voice is what a business table, when you're sitting in the boardroom, that's what they're gonna notice first.  They're gonna notice how you present yourself.  It's the same as when the secretary or the receptionist answers the phone and says your company name.  That's the first thing people hear.  You need to make that impression, son.  Let me hear you say who you are," and it stuck with me.  

Then when I saw my brother, who I didn't even know was my brother, when I watched him on TV announcing, I'm like, "God, look at this.  Guy dresses in the finest tux, good-looking guy, looks like James Bond, probably meets amazing-looking women, travels the world, sees the best fights.  Man, what a job," and I found myself actually starting to announce some of the things in the fighters' names and stuff, and I really liked it.  Then when I found out that he was my brother after a long story cut short because they put a name Buffer on the screen, and I'm like I've seen every phonebook in the United States.  I've never seen my name.  Why is this guy named Buffer?  What's going on here?  

I'm driving with my dad, and people are asking me daily, "Is that your brother, that guy that goes, 'Let's get ready to rumble's"  "No, my brother's Brian.  I don't know."  I'm driving with my dad, and I told him what I just told you.  He goes like this, "I think that's your brother," right?  "What?  What?"  So then I coerced him to call Michael when he was doing a fight in the Valley, and they met for lunch, and it turned out to be his son.  My dad never told me during World War II he was married for nine months like 20 years old, and when he went overseas and came back, a son was born.  

The mother died when the son was 6.  He was raised by foster parents under a different name of Huber, but he was never formally adopted, and my dad had lost track of each other.  When he went into the Army, they said, "Your birth certificate says you're Michael Buffer.  You're not Michael Huber.  You're Michael Buffer."  Had that not happened, we might not be having this interview because I sold both those businesses I told you that I was about to tell you I'm not passionate about.  I woke up every day hating going to work, and I was making incredible money.

But I sat in an arena and watched everybody go nuts over him doing his thing, and when he did the rumble, Jack Nicholson and Hulk Hogan would go, "Yeah."  I'm like, "Hmm."  I went back to my room, and I found myself - this is when you know as a young entrepreneur that you've clicked on something.  The passion is grabbing you when your mind starts uncontrollably focusing on a business scenario or a product, and you have to ask yourself, "Why am I thinking about this so much," right?  

Then you start doing your research, okay.  So I sat, and I wrote three pages of notes like put them in the basketball court, put them on the football field, trademark this phrase properly and make it part of American culture on the tip of everybody's tongue.  What does the rumble mean?  I thought, "Hmm, oh, I know, it's like [sings trumpet call] declaring a call to the pure integrity of the competitive spirit."  That's what I marketed and labeled it as because I went back to my brother, and I said, "Look, you have not so much made a hat or a t-shirt off this thing.  I'm making this over here and bla bla bla, but I'm willing to sell those companies and quit with the money I have in the bank.  

I wanna be your manager, but I wanna be your 50/50 partner.  I'm gonna trademark this phrase, and we're gonna make toys and video games and talking key chains, movies, TV, bla bla bla bla."  He's like, "Well, how are you gonna do all that?"  I said, "I don't know, but if I'm gonna give all this up, you'd better believe I'm gonna make this happen."  That was 25 years ago.  To date we've sold well over $400 million in retail sales in products and ventures I created with the Rumble, and Michael of course, too, because he is the man.  I'm the man behind the man, behind the Rumble.  

I'm the sheriff, and legally we're ripped off from major companies and corporations because when you're in business, you need to protect the business that you have.  In our case it's called IP, which is intellectual property, which Michael is, and I am his brands, but our phrases are considered trademarks and copyrights, and that's the kinda thing that you need to do when you can.  Oh, they sold all that money.  I'll just make another phrase and put it on a t-shirt.  Good luck, buddy.  It's gotta have that kismet.  It's gotta have that thing.  

In this case it had a man behind it.  Other businesses have heads of businesses, and WWE it's Vince McMahon, and UFC it's Dana White.  In Herbalife in the old days was a named Mark Hughes.  It's on and on and on, and Michael is so associated with the Rumble, nobody else can do that, nor as a matter do I allow anybody to do it.

Jaime:	Nice, which is the part that's so important.  So tell me this, though.  How come UFC doesn't own "It's Time?"  How do you own "It's Time," technically, or your brother?

Bruce:	Well, because a) if you ever allow the company to use it, you allow them to use it through a license.  You're the trademark owner, but they can use it through a license.  Now with the "Let's get ready to rumble," even though he's announced the big boxing fights and other events including WWE and all that, I'm not allotted except one time to be used in a commercial promoting an event.  

After that they had to pay a license fee and money.  You either get paid for your appearance fees, your spokesperson fees.  In the case of a trademark, it's a license fee.  When I make a video game like Ready to Rumble, we sold about 3.5 million games with Midway's Ready to Rumble.  In order to do that, and here's another thing, and I learned this - can I segue for a second?

Jaime:	Oh, sure, sure.

Bruce:	On the video game thing, I'll tell you a real cool story.  As an entrepreneur, I find this to be a very cool story because I am an entrepreneur.  I am forever.  I'm working on a new product right now not even anything to do with the UFC that I'm gonna make an announcement about in three months, completely different.  It's completely different, but it's what I do.  I run different businesses, but with the Midway video game, I was approached by EA, and they were doing what became Fight Night, and they wanted Michael to be in the game.  They wanna do the Rumble.  

Well, once you're in the game, you can't do another game.  He's already doing the Rumble in that EA fighting game, boxing game.  So I said, "Okay, I want this much, but we wanna own part of the game if you're gonna do the Rumble, and you need to license the right to use it."  So they offered a very nice fee for his work in the thing, but they wouldn't give the ownership over, right.  So I held back.  We wound up not doing the deal, and I had previously gone to Midway that created Mortal Kombat, and I pitched them on the idea of an arcade-style, over-the-top -

Jaime:	I love - I'm a video gamer, sorry.

Bruce:	The new one's coming out, or it's already out, yeah.

Jaime:	I know, I heard.  Okay, yeah, just keep going.

Bruce:	[Inaudible] [00:20:43] game comes out next week, and it's awesome.  I played it last week.

Jaime:	Really?

Bruce:	Yeah, that was before.  It was really cool.  So anyway, I said don't do real fighters.  Do over-the-top arcade-style caricatures, and that way they won't die.  We'll put Michael in it with the Rumble, and we'll keep it alive as a live thing because he does every big fight.  Well, it fell on deaf ears, but after I cut the deal with EA, my phone rang, and it was Midway.  Now in Hollywood there's a saying, "If it's not their idea, it's not gonna happen," right, so you gotta let go of your ego and play that game.  

So they called up, and they said, "Listen, we're creating this game.  It's got these crazy arcade-style, over-the-top fighters, and it's gonna be a great party game, and we wanna call it Ready to Rumble, and we want Michael in the game.  I'm saying in my head, "That's the idea that I pitched you guys about six to nine months ago."  "How long the game's been being developed?"  "We're in the fifth month of development right now."

Jaime:	He's so smart, geez.

Bruce:	So I went down to San Diego and met with them, and it was real cute because when the guy picked me up at the train station, he goes, "Welcome to Revenge of the Nerds" because it's just like you got all these young guys, and they brought me in a war room where they had 12- or 14-year-old kids, like 20 of them, just playing video games, and that was their R&D department, right.  So we made the game, and I talked them into being an owner of the game, and I also got Michael a great, crazy payday, and together as partners we did quite well on it.  It was very, very exciting.  

That's called holding out, and I learned that from a story about Sylvester Stallone, which really sat on my mind.  When he originally was broke and had less than $200.00 to his name, and they offered him $250,000.00 for the original Rocky script, but he wanted to star in it, and he turned it down.  He couldn't even afford to eat, right, but he stood his ground, and they came back, and he became a star in the movie, and it won Best Picture, and he got nominated for Best Actor, didn't win, and on and on and on, and we all know where that success went.  

In business you gotta believe in yourself, and you gotta hold out for what you believe in, and you can't hold out for something unless you're passionate about it.

Jaime:	What can give for advice, though, for the people that are in that I-can't-eat mode, and even if they have opportunities or don't have opportunities and have the passion but don't have any success, where can they go right then, you know what I mean?  It's degrading.  It feels horrible.  You have any advice?

Bruce:	A big example of that would be somebody who's trying to be an actor, which I wanted to be as a kid, too, and then I lacked the passion to pound the pavement to go to the auditions and to go deal with the rejection.  Luckily the position I'm in now, I've made 12 movies and co-starred on different shows, and I'm fulfilling that little void that I had, so I'm very lucky that I got to do that thing.  But what I have to recommend them is you have to believe in yourself, but I get back to it again.  Set a time goal for yourself, and you also have to survive, and you've gotta take a job that will allow you to pursue that endeavor.  

If you're trying to pursue developing a product, then sit down, and again, the opportunity costs, everything in life is very simple.  What people make the mistake of doing is they complicate it by thinking they've gotta create originality again.  I mean in Hollywood there's 15 plots and 150 ways to tell each story barring any historical reference.  In business what changes business?  Well, the Internet changed business.  E-mail changed business.  Fax machines are obsolete.  You adapt in business.  You adapt to change, but business is still the same.  All business is the same.  It's just the products that are different.  That's all it is.  

Your theory of marketing should remain the same combined with the other elements of passion and believing in your product and doing your research and surrounding yourself with the best people to work with.  So the first thing I would tell you, in answer to your question, is analyze what you need to live and be happy and survive.  Then get a job that you need to do that will fit that mold.  Now if you need your days free, you work at nights.  If you need your nights free, you work during the day.  There's many positions now that you can work out of your house and make money.  There's a lot of things out there that you can pursue.  

In my day telemarketing was a big source of income for people that were not doing it for a career but were doing it to subsidize while they're going to school or they're being actors or while they're building their businesses.  Find out something that can provide you with the income so you don't have the pressure of worrying about where your next meal and house payment or rent payment's gonna come from.  At least realize that area, and then ask yourself how can I build from here.  

Now if you have money in the bank, and you wanna roll the dice like I did, fine, but you know what else I did in the first year that I had Michael?  Because I was in big demand in the telemarketing industry for the products I sold.  I never was the Wolf of Wall Street where I cheated people like he did.  I didn't do all that.  They tried to hire me many times, but I didn't wanna go there.  I'm not into that kinda sales.  I sold products, and you just gotta find the product that works for you, and I found it during that first year.  

I hired myself out as a consultant, which paid me $100,000.00 in that first year just to go to the office once a week for two hours after I wrote and developed a whole sales system form.  So I found what worked for me to help me subsidize while I was building the business, and that's the same advice I'm giving out to the young entrepreneurs that may be watching right now.

Jaime:	All right, can you give me some tips, especially with you and your brother both have insane voices.  You probably have practiced a thousand times over.  I have friends of so many podcasters.  I lose my voice constantly.  I don't know how to project.  Can you give us sort of a top five or three tips that we can do to help our voices and to project?  What did your dad tell you, right?  How do I have some of that?

Bruce:	Well, the first thing you wanna do is be healthy and not abuse yourself.  Don't abuse your voice.  If you're a smoker or whatever, you're gonna see different things that happen.  That's kind of an obvious thing.  Stay hydrated.  When you're doing your podcast, keep a little jar of honey down on the side, and if you find that or maybe in a little sipper, and then if your throat ever gets sore, just take the honey that rolled down your throat.  It's a great lubricant for the vocal chords.  Also the Santa thing like Halls mentholyptus or Riccola.  I'll pop one after a couple of announcements and just enjoy it.  Let it coat my throat.  

The other thing is that if you have access to a gym, when I'm on the road, I hit a steam bath if there's a gym in the hotel or even a sauna can dry you out, but a steam bath is really good.  Those are little tips.  

As far as projection, try not to force your talk.  Just talk naturally.  First off, you have a lovely voice, okay.  You have a very nice voice, so you don't need to overly project, and try to bring it up from here.  Try to talk from your chest, from your diaphragm here, right.  That's what singers do.  I found when I used to announce, I would always be argh, argh [spoken from throat], and then after the show, I'd be hoarse.  Now I'll do another one.  You wanna pay me?  I'll do another one.

Jaime:	And you said you don't even practice.  How do you come up with all that stuff because you're amazing?

Bruce:	Oh, thanks, that's really sweet.  That's probably why I maybe do that so different than everybody else because I wanna do it organically.  When I walk out, what I do in the morning of a show, my routine is I like to get a workout in.  I like to get what I call a power breakfast: blueberries, carbs, the whole bit, because I'm at that arena for eight hours doing what I do, but I like to meditate.  Then as far as an exercise, I don't sit there and announce.  I don't sit in the shower and go, "Chuck Lidell."  I don't do anything like that.  I go out and feel the energy of the crowd, and that's what gets me going.  

If you notice, because I'll announce 12 or 13 fights a night, and I'll start off, and then I'll get a little crazier and a little more amped, and then it crescendos into the co- and the main event.  So it's a build-up.  When I'm doing my turns in the beginning for the prelims on Fight Pass or on Fox, I'll just kinda go like this, and then all of a sudden that first show of the pay-per-view card will cap, and then boom.  Then I'll pick it up, and then it just starts going, and then I start going with it.  

If you look at me in between fights like the co- and main event, I'm stretching, and I'm kinda shaking out my legs, and I'm moving around, and I'm just getting into it because I'm getting into a zone.  See, there's announcers, and I know I'm an announcer, but I consider myself a performer, and the reason I like to perform while I'm announcing is because it makes it fun for me.  When you travel the world doing 38 shows like I did last year, everywhere from Tokyo to Korea to Brazil to Europe, you name it, and again, I kid.  

It's like being James Bond without having to kill anybody.  It's like I get the call.  Pack a tux.  You're going to Korea.  Pack a tux.  You're going to Brisbane.  Pack a tux.  You're going here.  So I need to enjoy what I do, and I'm having fun.  The moment that passion wanes, then you're gonna hear that I'm gonna retire.  I'll be done.  I can't fake that.  I love the paycheck.  I'll be the first one to the bank on Monday cashing that paycheck, but I'm not about the paycheck.  I'm about experience and everything, and that's why I just still treat it like an 18-year-old kid.

Jaime:	How has it been that way for 20 years, though?  Because usually you hear people, especially doing the same thing, no offense, you're doing the same thing every time.  I totally understand you get the energy of the crowd, but any performer over 20 years usually is kinda like, "Okay, done."

Bruce:	I might be doing the same thing, but I'm doing a different show every night, different fights, different fighters, different cities, different arenas, different personalities, different everything experiencing amazing, one-of-a-kind things.  It's like the cards I use in my hand for Conor McGregor's fight, his last fight.  I put them on eBay.  They sold the cards for $5,000.00.  I've put in the cards from Saturday Nights Fight on after this interview on eBay again.  

I get a good chunk of charity, but it's amazing what people pay, and why will they pay for it?  Because a) hopefully they're mine, but b) because they're one of a kind.  See, every event I do every night is one of a kind.  I might be the announcer doing what I do, but it's still one of a kind.  Everything is new.  Even the routine's different.  That's why I don't rehearse.  I don't know what I'm gonna do until I do it, and that cuts it for me.

Jaime:	And you get to see the amazing fights like last Saturday was insane.  I was gonna fly to Vegas to see the event, but then they changed up Conor's fight, and I was like, "Eh, it's no big deal.  I'm not gonna go see that one," and now I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, you got to see that live."

Bruce:	I would've told you to get off that plane quicker.

Jaime:	It was insane.  Well, I didn't know who he was gonna fight, and then I was too late, so just like the upsets, what do you do on one of those nights, right?  So you're finally done.  Do you get nervous at all beforehand, and then when you're finally done with the announcing, do you just get into the fights, or no?  I mean this is the last fight, really, that you can actually get into.

Bruce:	Yeah, I mean I got nervous for the first few times I ever announced 20 years ago.  Now it's not nervous.  It's adrenaline.  It's excitement, and that's what it gets up.  Then I walk out of the Octagon, and I sit down, and boom, it's just I've got my face on the cage of the Octagon.  I'm seeing the whole thing, so then if you could actually experience being inside the Octagon with me when I'm announcing, I can't begin to tell you what that's like.  You'd have to be in there.  

That is are you looking literally at the eye of the tiger.  Think about standing in front of the cage at the Kentucky Derby, and the horses there just blowing the snot and spit, can't wait to jump out of there.  That's like standing in front of Chuck Lidell before he goes to war, standing in front of Rampage Jackson or John Jones, Rhonda and look in those eyes.  I mean hoohah [whistles].

Jaime:	Can you feel the energy, like super feel the energy?  Are they in the zone?  Do you know what they do to get in the zone, too?

Bruce:	Every fighter's different.  I take them to that next level.  You may not see it on TV, but when I'm announcing them, sometimes I'm literally this far away from their face, my face and theirs like this, their face and mine.  They're fist bumping me, and it's no other fighter and announcer have that kind of interaction, which I'm very happy and proud to say.  

I think a lot of announcers are probably afraid to get that close to a fighter, but the fighters respect me, and that's really very key in my existence in there, and it makes me feel more comfortable.  I know that Octagon like a basketball player knows his half-court.  No matter where I'm at, I can spin, jump, turn, and unless a cameraman makes the mistake of being behind me, which has happened, they're gonna catch an elbow.  I might knock them out, so it's like you gotta watch out.

Jaime:	Amazing, and I know you said you did martial arts from beforehand.  Do you think that's important?  I do martial arts, too.  Do you think it's important for a business owner to sort of have something else like that?  I feel like it's really helped both sides.

Bruce:	Absolutely, because first off, the theories of fighting and the mental similarities of business as well as even playing poker are all very similar, knowing when to be offensive, knowing when to be defensive, knowing when to react off your business counterparts? moods, knowing how to make the sale, whether you're walking out, you're not making the sale in the room, you're walking to the door, you do the doorknob close, you grab that doorknob, you turn around, and you give them that one more shot.  

It's like everything is timing in life.  Everything is knowing and honing your craft, so for 20 years I've been experiencing a new rehearsal every night I walk in that Octagon, yet I don't rehearse outside the Octagon.  I like to keep it real.  It's part of the pleasure.  You have to enjoy what you do in business, and you have to look forward to it, but yeah, the similarities are very strong.  What I preach in my motivational speeches to business owners when I teach branding and marketing is if you're not healthy - we all know this - I don't care how much money you have.  I don't care whatever.  Owning a business and being in a business is a very stressful situation.  You need releases.  

Some people do that through eating food and drinking.  Some people do it through excessive sex and whatever.  Some people do it through excessive exercise.  Well, everything is good all the way around in moderation, but above everything, you need to take care of yourself nutritionally, and you need to take care of yourself working out.  When I fly into a city, my goal is when I land to do 45 minutes of cardio to set my system right.  Every day hit that gym.  It might not be your local gym that you're comfortable doing your weights or your pilates or whatever you do when you're home, your yoga, but you can get in there and get in a cardio machine when you're on the road.  

It's very important, and staying healthy is 75 percent of what you eat and 25 percent of how you work out, right, even though like I just got back from two hours at the gym.  I just love working out, but if I didn't eat right, I wouldn't be able to do that because stress is a killer, and it'll block you out and make you nonproductive in your business.  You need to treat that temple, that beautiful temple you have as the beautiful temple it is.

Jaime:	That's amazing.  We [inaudible] [00:35:12] that enough.  We're like oh, so I interviewed for my book 100 Millionaires, and I asked them about their food because I was wondering, too, do they normally eat well?  Are they overweight, or are they not, right?  50 percent of them actually had some sort of gluten-free or paid attention to that.  The other 50 percent was like, "I do the entrepreneur's diet where I eat when I can, and it's not always good," right.  

Bruce:	I know.

Jaime:	I don't think that's good.

Bruce:	The Wall Street line, what is it?  Lunch is for closers.  Glengarry Glen Ross.

Jaime:	I love that line.

Bruce:	Lunch is for closers.  I was Alec Baldwin, if you remember that scene?

Jaime:	Yeah.

Bruce:	That's the way I was in the telemarketing industry.

Jaime:	Really?

Bruce:	They brought me in to set everybody straight.  I was tough.

Jaime:	I can only imagine.  If you can get this close to a fighter's face like that, I'm sure if you got this close to a sales guy's face, they would pee.

Bruce:	They peed money because I got my salesmen's commissions up.  My salesmen made more money with me because I pushed them.  You're here to sell.  You're not here to do anything else.  I made them work the day before Christmas.  Are you kidding?  There's always somebody out there to sell.

Jaime:	Give up tips on motivating your team because there's a lot of people that actually are newer leaders, right.  They have a couple, five, ten employees, and they're trying to handle it all and be nice but get them to do what they need to do.

Bruce:	Well, in your business if you're teaching other people, the proper way, in my opinion, is and what I've found is a) you need to be the best.  You need to be the example setter for that company.  If you're gonna teach somebody how to sell your product, then you better be able to sell your product yourself, okay.  Unless you're hiring somebody to come in and be your VP of sales, then they'll assume that position.  So whoever's the one in charge of teaching your people should be a role model to those people, whether it's the secretary teaching the secretary or whether it's the VP of marketing teaching upcoming people in marketing or whether it's the head sales manager teaching the salesmen.  

It's like you don't wanna have somebody reviewing your movie that never made a movie.  I'd rather they understand what it's like to make a movie.  So the other thing is when you're teaching your people whatever the endeavor in your business is, keep it simple.  I really believe that theory.  Keep it simple, Susan.  Keep it simple, Sam, so they understand, but teach them how to teach others how to teach.  In other words, the secret to success we all know is delegation.  Micromanaging and doing everything 100 percent yourself, which I've been a victim of, too, in my past, is not gonna get you where you wanna get.  You gotta let go of your ego, train properly, and duplicate yourself, so delegation is very key.  

The other thing is that in my companies what I've found and this can be adapted to other companies, too.  I believe everybody should work for a carrot.  In other words, salary's great, okay.  If you give somebody four hours to do an eight-hour job, they will get it done if it means their job.  If you give them eight hours to do a four-hour job, they will stretch it out for that eight hours, okay.  That's just the nature of the beast.  That's human nature.  

So in order to control that, you need to be in constant contact and communication with your people.  Businesses and relationships are very similar in one respect: neither one is going to work out without proper communication.  The reason I can hold that Octagon and do what I do as you were asking earlier is because a) I've been passionate, and it's almost like a long marriage for me to keep it going.  Now you can ask me if I've been married, and no, I haven't.  I've never been married, but I've almost been divorced twice, so it's like two girls I would've married.  

But if I found a woman that was as loyal to me as that Octagon is to me and my experiences in it 38 times a year, I'd have a 20-year marriage, and so I'm good.  You need to communicate with your people, and I believe in carrots.  It's one thing to give a salary, but it's another thing to walk over to them and pat that person on the back and tell them they've done a good job.  Now I don't mean every day to where they think, "Oh, it's just another pat on the back from the boss," but I mean when something's done, reward people, and reward them whether it's something simple like pizzas for the office on a Friday or whatever, let them know they're part of a team, right.  

There's nothing worse than alienating your employees, and as far as a carrot is concerned, well, depending on the position of the company based on performance, there's nothing wrong with a little envelope toss once in a while to make somebody happy to let them know you care.  What I've found is the female workers for me have always been the best because once they become loyal to you, passionate about what they do, they will stay with you.  

Male workers have a tendency to say, "Okay, I can take the sales crew.  I can be the sales manager.  I can do this business.  I'll be going on my own."  Why do I know that?  Because I did that, okay.  I started my first company at 19 emulating the telemarketing company I started to work for at 18.  I got sued for $1 million after I did it by the company I left because 80 percent of the sales force left to go work for me because of everything I'm telling you.

Jaime:	You were that young?  That's crazy.

Bruce:	Yeah, and then I went back to the company, and I wound up having the lawsuit dropped.  They paid my attorney all the fees.  They gave me more money and a piece of the company, and about 60 percent of the force that left came back.  So they just wanted me back.  Their sales went to crap like that.

Jaime:	That's ridiculously [inaudible] [00:40:23].

Bruce:	I found out that one of my partners I started the company with like in Glengarry Glen Ross, they stole leads from the company.  They never told me.  Not only the salespeople, they took leads that were proprietary leads they had.  When I found that out, because I have another rule in business, and this is why I play poker because it's legal to lie at the poker table: I do not lie.  I don't lie.  I always tell the truth, and I don't have time spending time remembering lies.  Tell the truth.  Keep your memory banks healthy and strong for productive thoughts, right.

Jaime:	To me it seems like integrity is sort of lacking through a lot of people in business.  You would think it would be the main foundation, and it's not.

Bruce:	Well, it's the main foundation when you start off with that attitude that everybody's trained for to go to college and work for 20 years, retire and get a gold watch, but once you get out there into the thick and thin, it's dog eat dog.  If you wanna sit there and think that everybody you do business with is on an equal level, they could take that sale and take the commission you have to them or acquire that product or that lead for their company.  Don't think just because they like you they're not gonna do it.  

That would be like sitting at the poker table, and everybody that's there on the table with chips; you don't think they want your chips?  You think they're looking at you because you're beautiful, and say, "Oh, hi."  They want your chips.  They want everything you have.  This is a dog eat dog - and it's getting worse.  It's getting worse because morality's going to hell in a hand basket in this country.  Just from the simple standpoint of being a gentleman and a chivalrous white knight, right, which I pride myself on being.  

Another example, I don't know if you're married or dating, but you go out with somebody.  Now do they open the door for you?  Do they let you walk in front of them into the restaurant to the table?  It's simple things, right?  One of the biggest problems that's happening is not just the Kardashians in this world creating role models that have no productive - how do I say? - productive quality things to the young women of this world, right.  It's just you've gotta stand tall and be a role model in this life.

Jaime:	So you told us in the beginning I wanna help raise other people up.  Well, how can you do that when you're like oh, they're dogs, and they might bite me right now, right?

Bruce:	Well, the Godfather had a saying in The Godfather: keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  In business keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Know what everybody's thinking.  At the poker table when you sit down, you play the player.  You don't play the cards, so look at who your opponent is and realize who they are.  Sure, there's cut and black-and-white businesspeople.  It's either black, or it's white, but when you're dealing with people, understand who you're dealing with.  Know your players.  Know the players.  You can't go play the game unless you know the players, right.  

So this is just experience talking, but that's how it should be.  Know the people who work with you.  Know your team.  Know your opponents.  Study your competition.  Who is your competition, right?  Are you selling a widget?  Okay, what is the biggest widget-selling company in your geographical area?  Why are they big?  What do they do?  The modern technology that's out there allows a young entrepreneur to succeed much easier because there's so much information.  Everybody's company has a website.  There's things you can look up.  You can realize what they're doing and learn from them.  

So when I say don't recreate the wheel, look at two or three companies that do exactly what you do.  Analyze what they do, and now take some of the principles mixed with your own and create them into a ball for your company and go after it.  If they're doing $1 million a year in sales, why can't you do a half million working your way to that eventual million dollars?  That's the other thing people do.  They overset their goals.  Set your goals realistic.  Make your goals conservative.  When you go from A to B to C, you don't go from A to C.  You go from A to B, okay?

Jaime:	Thank you.

Bruce:	Yeah.

Jaime:	I think we could hear that a thousand more times.  What would be a good next B step?  Let's say they're making six figures like $100,000.00 right now.  What is the B step before they get to a million?  

Bruce:	Well, actually the B step would really be to set another realistic goal, which is $200,000.00, okay.  You don't just go, "Okay."  I made $100,000.00 by the time I was 20 years old in a year, and it's like I really, really at that point, two things occurred to me.  Will I be able to do this again during this next year, right, and can I just set a realistic goal of $150,000.00, right?  But being the entrepreneur I am, I wanted to go to a quarter million.  

But you gotta be realistic because every time you get there, then you set the next goal.  What, are you gonna disappointed?  Oh, you want $250,000.00?  You only need $140,000.00, and you made $100,000.00 last year?  Well, you just had a 40 percent increase.  Be pretty proud of yourself.  Then a timing happens, like I said, and I correlate to the poker game.  Time happens when I'm in a poker tournament.  I get so many chips to start.  Now maybe I'll get lucky, and I have all of a sudden a ton of chips in front of me.  Okay, great, and I made that quarter million.  

Otherwise if I'm still in the game, and I've increased mine to be the average stack of all the other competitors as they go on, I will ride that average stack all the way to the final table and win the whole thing with what?  With patience.  Patience is key, right?  I know I'm in this tournament's gonna last three days.  I can't win this in two hours.  I can knock myself out and go out of business in two hours if I play the game wrong, or I can analyze the game I'm in and be patient and play the game.

Jaime:	[Inaudible] [00:45:45] because I feel like entrepreneurs typically don't have that innately.  We want it all now, like yesterday would be best, but I want it of course tomorrow, so we have this sort of innate passion, so I feel like we want everything sooner than normal.  How do you actually mitigate that and actually have patience?

Bruce:	Well, we live in a fast food society.  We wanna hamburger; we drive through Jack In The Box.  You're not me.  I won't eat there, but you know what I'm saying.

Jaime:	Yep.

Bruce:	Everything is quick.  We live in this technological society of texting and ADD society created because it's not opening magazines for four-page articles anymore.  They're capsulized articles like Maxim.  It's like the mind constantly needs to be stimulated, and people are just drawn in so many directions.  It's to me as much as technology has helped business, it's kinda screwed it up, too, and it's created this get rich quick, do this quick, be a reality star and be a star quick when you have absolutely no talent. 

You live in the Jersey Shore, and I could care less about you, but you made a ton of money, so now you're the successful one.  This is what society's breeding.  It's breeding these quick, easy wins, and I'm not saying that can't happen.  It can, right, but don't set out for it to be that way because if organically your business is accepted, and people buy your product and your service, then you will grow at the pace at which your supply and demand dictates.

Jaime:	Exactly.

Bruce:	You get one last thing.

Jaime:	Okay.

Bruce:	You could have a diamond in this hand and a piece of coal here, right, but you could mark this piece of coal like the Jersey Shore.  Everybody looks at it like a diamond, and everybody wants to watch it, right.  The diamond, you mark it, you don't do it correctly, it looks like a piece of coal to everybody, and nobody buys it.  The key is marketing.  Everything is a key, and marketing's the key to everything.  Perception is reality, and you need to sell to that perception.

Jaime:	Do you have any recommendations on getting ? because I know we have to start wrapping up in a second, but marketing books or websites or do you guys talk about marketing?  How can we get better at marketing if you say that's the main thing?

Bruce:	Well, I think the really big thing in this day and age is social media.  I mean there's such a thing as searching, and in the old days the telemarketing and guys like Zig Ziglar with the motivational speeches, they'll do those famous lines like "you need ten no's to get your yes."  Actually, that's very true.  I welcome every no I ever got because I knew the yes was gonna come sooner or later if I'm presenting myself properly, but you've just gotta go after it.  

You gotta go after it, but social media is something that now you're creating a direct qualified lead, right.  So if you have a base of organically growing followers on Facebook, which I think Facebook is probably the best one.  Facebook, and then of course there's Twitter.  Instagram I really do enjoy.  I don't think it's really that key for the Facebook-style mass marketing, but it's still good to have.  You wanna put yourself up on everything.  Then just build your client base that are interested in you.  

Granted, 30 percent of them won't respond or more and you'd be lucky to get ? like a direct mail in the old days, if you got a 2 percent response to your 100,000 flyers or whatever the 200 leads, then you're doing fine.  It's a numbers game out there, and you've gotta be consistent.  You don't just think you can put a commercial on TV for a week running twice a day, you're gonna get a response.  Chances are the response you're gonna get is the bank cashing your check, right.  That's the best response you're gonna get, the money that you made everybody else.  

You have to develop it, and try to develop it in a way that you're not spending a lot of money, and you're consistently marketing to your direct qualified leads.  Social media's a big wave.  That's a really big wave now and will be for a long time, if not forever in various changes.

Jaime:	Heck, yeah, different distribution methods, same sort of premise, right?

Bruce:	Your immediate sphere of influence.  Every multilevel marketing company that ever came around, and you can say, "Oh, they're pyramid sales."  Well, you know what a pyramid is?  Here's a pyramid.  Life is a pyramid.  Here's the guys packing the boxes shipping the stuff, answering the phones, making the sales, managing the sales, VPing the managers, VPing the VPs, the CEO, the COO, and they're the ones cashing the checks and dropping everything down.  So the base, without that base, there is no top.  It's not with the top, there is no base.  

Not everybody can be a leader in life.  You need the followers, and that's why you need to recognize people's qualities around you.  Are you giving them jobs that they're really not qualified to do?  Then direct them in the ones they are qualified to do, and then direct and teach.  But life is like a pyramid.  Now in the whole multilevel sales thing, the first thing you do is talk to everybody you know, right?  That's your sphere of influence.  

Then they teach you well, now you need to get them to talk to the people they know, so you get three, and they get three, and they get three, and they get three, and there's only so many doers come out of that.  There's not that much difference between that and every other business that opens in the world, so when I hear pyramid sales, I go, "That's just life.  Great, how's the marketing plan?  Can you make money with it?  Oh, it's a bad marketing plan.  Don't do it."  Life is a pyramid.

Jaime:	I think that's amazing.  I could talk to you for way too long.  I know we have to start wrapping up, so the last question I always ask is what's one action listeners can take this week to help them move forward towards their goal of a million?

Bruce:	Write down exactly what you're doing now in two columns, the old love/hate column, passionate, not passionate.  Do the likes and dislikes of what you're doing now, and sit back, look at yourself in front of a mirror and read the negatives to yourself and read the positives.  Do the positives outweigh the negatives?  Did they create passion for you for what you're doing?  Are you truly passionate about what you're doing?  Okay, if you are, then keep going.  If you're not, then reanalyze your position in life.  Maybe it's time for a change.

Jaime:	Thank you so much for saying that.  I don't think people pay attention enough.  We just wanna do the money, do the money, do the money, and that's the whole point of Eventual Millionaire.

Bruce:	Yeah.

Jaime:	To have the life you love and the business you love and make money.  Otherwise we're doing it for money, and it's silly, so thank you so much.  I so appreciate you coming on.  Where do we find out more about you?  You do introductions, so any podcasters on the show right now, he actually could do one for you, by the way, which would be insane, so you do so many things.  You have an amazing book.  Where can we find out more about all that?

Bruce:	Well, the book It's Time released by Random House is sold out in the stores, but you just go to Amazon.com and buy it there on my book page.  I'm gonna ask you to leave a review if you do it.  I've gotten great reviews, which are just so much fun for me to read.  Then for BruceBuffer.com, my website, you can go there to find out about all the things I'm doing, appearances and in and out of the UFC.  I was just in Puerto Rico introducing four sold-out concerts for the Latin singers Daddy Yankee and Don Omar.  That was 72,000 people.  I had a blast doing that, and I'm gonna be doing NASCAR Homestead Speedway.  I announce the final NASCAR race every year and the champions.  

I get to do all these crazy things, but then my podcast is the lifestyles podcast It's Time.  It's great, and it's once a week, and you can get it at BruceBuffer.com, iTunes or SoundCloud, and we have a large following.  Once a month I actually do the show devoted to S&R, which is sex and relationships, and I have a guest host who's a sexpert on the show.  We take mail, and we talk relationships, and then I'll have Daymond John on from Shark Tank, who was on two weeks ago.  We talked business.  I got I think Josh Brolin, the actor, is coming on next week or Ray Liotta might be coming on next week, so we change it up.  

The show this week actually was a business show.  An entrepreneur wanted a show, which happened to be on the subject of the cannabis movement in the United States, and I had a guy who's on StartEngine.com raising funds for his pesticide made from the cannabis plant for cannabis cultivation and all this stuff, and we were just learning how big this industry is becoming, and a lot of people are starting to jump in.  

It doesn't mean you're smoking it, but they're jumping in it because it's actually one of those potential ground-floor opportunities out there, which is already now a $5 billion industry in the United States.  So I wanted to learn more about this, so I had him on to talk to that, so we change up.  

Jaime:	[Inaudible] [00:53:54].

Bruce:	And then your recordings, yeah, podcasts and otherwise, I do weddings, tons of weddings, I do births of babies.  "Coming up now," all that kinda stuff.  It's all this crazy stuff.

Jaime:	Really?  That's amazing.  I wish I could ask you more questions, but I know we have to finish up.  If you guys like listening to my show, am I sure you will like listening to Bruce's, so make sure on iTunes you go over and check his out, too.  Thank you so much for coming on today.  I so appreciate it.  You have no idea.

Bruce:	Well, it's very pleasurable, and thank you so much, Jaime.  You're absolutely adorable and very lovely to talk to.  One last thing: Instagram it's BruceBufferUFC and Twitter is just @BruceBuffer.

Jaime:	Perfect, tell them how much you love him, okay.

Bruce:	What was that?

Jaime:	I told everybody to tell them how much they love you.  Give him lots of Twitter and Instagram love.

Bruce:	Another thing in business, love me or hate me, say what you want.  Just spell my name correctly.

Jaime:	That's easy.  Thank you so much, Bruce.  I hope you have an amazing day.

Bruce:	Thank you, Jaime.  Take care.  Cheers.

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Tags: Big Rule of Business, Bruce Buffer, Business Growth, Business Lesson, Business Scaling, Journaling, marketing, millionaire interview, Passion, Reviews, Service Industry, Telemarketing, Telemarketing Industry

Categories: All, Business, Business Model, Entrepreneurship, Millionaire Interviews

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