Building Intentional Business Relationships with Darrah Brustein

Founder of Network Under 40 – Darrah Brustein

Darrah Brustein is a teacher, connecter, author, and founder for entrepreneurial empowerment. In the fall of 2018, Darrah launched “Life by Design, Not by Default” sharing stories with visionaries like Deepak Chopra, Adam Grant, and Jen Sincero in a 45 speaker online summit reaching over 7,000 people.

For the past 10 years, she founded and scaled two businesses in tandem: a networking events company serving 30,000+ people and a payment processing company spanning 38 states.

A prolific writer and interviewer, Darrah’s thought leadership articles on lifestyle design have been read by over 1 million people across Forbes, Entrepreneur, and Thrive Global.

Her motivating motto “build a life of your own design, a career to fund it, and a network to support it” has inspired thousands to reach higher and dream bigger. She was even named ?#1 to follow? by BossBabe Magazine. Most recently, Darrah launched the video series “Diving Deep With Deepak & Darrah” to make deep topics that translate and relate into your life.

Episode Highlights:

• Darrah’s actions that led her to work with Deepak Chopra
• Learn how to set up boundaries in your relationships
• How deep a relationship needs to be before you can start to give and take
• Learn Darrah’s 30 Days Give It Forward challenge
• Tips in asking for help in a relationship
• Tips in checking and pausing your life to lead you to the life you want to have
• How to measure things in your life (and understanding how far you’ve come!)

Connect with Darrah:

Instagram
Twitter
Facebook

Website:

Darrah.co

Transcript: Download

Video Transcription provided by GMR Transcription Services.

Jaime:	Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I am Jaime Masters, and today on the show, we have Darrah Brustein. And now, she runs darrah.co. She?s interviewed amazing people like Deepak Chopra. You should totally check out her interviews with amazing celebrity guests. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Darrah:	Thank you for having me.

Jaime:	It was really impressive to see you have a course with Deepak Chopra that you?ve got on your thing. How?d you land that interview?

Darrah:	It?s so funny. Deepak was actually the first person I ever interviewed in person. Talk about throwing yourself in the deep end. I am such a believer in relationships, and the power of them, and also intention, and putting something out there that?s aligned with your values. And so, about a year and a half ago, I had this intention to create a virtual summit and sort of begin to brand myself in a new way. I?d built three businesses prior to that, but I really felt this intuitive calling to begin to teach, and mentor, and coach. And in so doing, I wanted to have this coming out party of sorts that was a virtual conference.

	And one of the primary people I wanted to headline, it was Deepak, but I didn?t know him. He had always been what I call a mentor from afar, meaning someone whose work I ingest, and they mentor me, but they don?t know that I exist. And so, I put it out there. I put out a press release. And <p data-wpview-marker="%5Baudio%20cuts%20out%5D">.</p> [00:01:15], out of the blue, didn?t directly write to Deepak?s team. His publicist reached out to me, talk about synchronicity. And they said to me, ?Oh, Deepak?s interested. Who else is doing it?? And I was like, ?Oh, Adam Grant?s doing it.?

	And I don?t think Jen Sincero was signed up at the time, but my friend Ronny, who played in the NBA was ? was like, ?Oh, this ? Ronny Turiaf?s doing it.? And they were like, ?Cool. Who else is doing it?? And I was like shoot, they?re not impressed yet. 

Jaime:	That?s awesome.

Darrah:	So, I called my friend Rebecca, who used to be Deepak?s COO, and whom I hadn?t initially reached out to because I didn?t want to take advantage of that really precious relationship. And I just said, ?Hey, Rebecca, listen. Deepak seems on the fence. If you don?t feel like it?s too much to ask, can you just reach out to him and let him know that we?re friends, and that I?m legit, and that he should consider doing this?? And she sent me a screenshot shortly after of her text him. And about 20 minutes after that, I had an e-mail from his team saying, ?Deepak?s saying can you be in New York next week?? 

Jaime:	See, we need to talk about this because the power of relationships, I think is hugely important, but I love that you didn?t go there first, that it wasn?t oh, what ? because normally, it?s like what in do I have? How do I make this work for me? And instead, you said you put out a press release. Did it say that ? tell me a little bit more about that actual action and how it led to that. That?s impressive.

Darrah:	There?s a resource that many of the listeners probably know about called HARO. It stands for Help a Reporter Out. And it?s something that I typically take into my inbox so that I can send out relevant things to people in my network to say hey, here?s an opportunity for you. I think it?s a really great way to nurture your relationships pretty simply. And so, I, for the first time, went onto HARO and put my own announcement saying hey, I?m doing X, Y, Z. If you fit into these buckets, then you can fill out an application to be a potential speaker.

	And of all of them I?m scanning through, I got hundreds of submissions, and I?m seeing Deepak Chopra. I?m like, this must be a prank. There?s no way. And it was actually his publicist. 

Jaime:	That is ? see, it?s so funny. Small things can make huge, huge differences when it comes to something like that. And you just had an intuition hit. And I want to talk about that too because you said intuition a lot, which I really appreciate. And I?m trying to get more people to talk about what that is like when they?re doing this because like you said, it came into an amazing synchronicity, even though you could have gone out, and been a hunter, and asked your friend, and did that. So, what made you go that sort of softer route instead of going right after it?

Darrah:	Well, as someone who myself is a connector and has been on the receiving end of a lot of people taking advantage of that and ? which obviously is my choice, meaning I can choose to say yes or not, but a lot of people who come wanting something without the real depth of relationship or real connections for me to want to go out of my way and leverage my reputation and my relational equity with someone to help them, I thought, you know what? I?m sure Rebecca gets this ask all the time. And I would rather not do that because she and I, when we met about four years before that, I had no idea what she did for a living. 

	I had no idea until many, many months later that she even had once been his COO. And I wanted her to continue to recognize that our relationship was not about me biding my time to ask her for this big favor. And so, at that point, I think it was so much more clear to her to say, you put in the work. You already got it to this pinnacle moment. All I have to do is help kick it over, which is a lot easier than trying to muster it up from the first place, which is the opposite, I?ll tell you, of what happened the second that we launched out weekly series. So, that happened. He did that. It was wonderful, and I thought that was going to be the end.

	And then, fast forward about nine months later. I interviewed him two more times. I interviewed his daughter. Life kept bringing us back together. And he e-mailed me ? actually, I e-mailed him along with Seth Godin who you mentioned before. We got on the phone, and a couple other people who I had collaborated with that year to just thank them and say, I?m hear in your court if you need anything in the coming year because that?s important. I think this is a really good relationship tip too, that you can?t just really talk to people when you need something.

	You have to be planting the seeds, and you have to be adding value and giving when you need absolutely nothing. And ideally, maybe you won?t ever need anything, but there?s this karmic retribution that comes back to you. It?s very ala Adam Grant?s Give and Take, that givers win as long as they?re not martyrs. So, I reached out to him the day after Christmas of 2018, and I said, ?Deepak, just want to thank you, let you know that I?m here if you need anything, continue to support you. I?m a big cheerleader.? I actually was a cheerleader. And he wrote me back about 15 minutes later and said, ?I?ve been reflecting as well, and I think you can help me make my message less esoteric and more understandable.?

	And I was gob smacked. I was like, what are you talking about? There are billions of people on this planet, and of all of them you?re telling me that I can help you? Ha-ha, this is cute. And he was serious. And so, we ping-ponged e-mails for about 10 more minutes to come up with this idea that every week, we would put out a video series online on both of our platforms called ?Diving Deep with Deepak & Darrah? where we would make the deep relatable and translatable into your life in about five minutes flat or less. And two weeks later, it was live.

	But the second that went live, it reminded me so much of the importance of this lesson because so many people came from all different nooks and crannies of me meeting them never, or meeting them once, or however many times, and said, hey, I have this thing. Can you introduce me to Deepak? Hey, I?m writing this book. Can you get him to blurb it? Or, fill in the blank. And it was really tough because I felt like I of course want to support people, but there have to be boundaries. And I certainly can?t take advantage of this relationship and how new and fragile it ? I mean, it wasn?t really fragile, but how new it was, and that we were developing our own trust and relationship first.

	And I can?t just bombard him and disrespect him that way either. And so, for me, it just was an ever-present reminder that you?ve got to consider what that reaction and response might be like from the person you?re asking of and how often they?re also getting that same ask. 

Jaime:	Thank you for saying this. I want to dive really ? I know we were going to talk about Life by Design in just a second, but the networking side is so important because I don?t think people go to the level of nuance that you are right now, and I really appreciate it because I get bombarded. Everybody that has some sort of audience gets bombard ? or knows people, gets bombarded like crazy. And learning that myself by going where is my boundary because I was like oh, I want to help everyone. I was the martyr. Oh, sure, I?ll help all the people. And then, I?m like wow, this sucks. This really is not good for my relationships either.

	That?s making me seem bad. That?s not cool. So, where did you start learning the boundaries, and where those lines are, and how deep a relationship needs to be before you can really start doing more of that give and take?

Darrah:	I think, like you said, the word nuance is so important because there is no perfect formula, and every situation is unique and different. And then, everyone?s proclivities are going to be unique to them as well. So, for me, I tend to veer on the side of I don?t ask for help or seek it more than is healthy. I think that it?s so important to be comfortable asking for the help you need and receiving it because when we don?t, we?re actually blocking the love that is due to us, and that?s a deeper problem. And so, I had to work through a lot of that, and I?m still working through some of that.

Jaime:	I?m raising my hand too, just saying.

Darrah:	I mean, especially as women, I think that we?re really taught give, give, give, pour it all out, leave it all on the field, and then just hope that there?s something left at the end of the day.

Jaime:	Maybe someone will remember I?m laying on the ground, awesome.

Darrah:	But there?s also a difference then, if we?re going to go back to this terminology of Adam Grant, between matchers and takers, where I never wanted to be a matcher. It was never about quid pro quo or tit for tat, I scratch your back, you scratch mine. That always made me feel icky. So, you actually want to help me, or you just want something in exchange? And that never felt comfortable to me. And then, lastly, the takers definitely didn?t feel comfortable to me, the I?m only out for No. 1, everything?s a transaction. What can I extract from you?

	That always made me tremendously just ? a tremendous amount of discomfort was felt by me. So, I naturally was always this giver. However, I quickly learned the lesson that you learned, that ? I remember very explicitly about 10+ years ago when I started my first company. It was a credit card processing company with my twin brother. We had ? well, we live in two different cities, but we joined the chamber of commerce in Atlanta where I am based. And I?m 25 years old. I?m getting in the mix of all the people there.

	And I?m starting to realize that this natural generous nature of mine was completely running me ragged because I?m going to every meeting, which is one or two a week, I am raising my hand to help everyone, to volunteer for everything, to lead the meeting, to do X, Y, and Z because I loved it. But then, I?m like, wait a minute. I?m also not taking care of myself. I?m not taking care of the needs of my business. However, asterisk, in caveat, that certainly paid dividends later. But I did it to the extreme, and there is a slippery slope, and a balance. 

	And so, any of this really comes back to doing a check with yourself and saying, does this feel like I?m doing it because I?m afraid to disappoint people? Does it feel like I?m doing this because I don?t want to burn a bridge or premeditatively potentially miss an opportunity? And those are coming from a lack mentality. I want to come from an abundance mentality. And this wasn?t easy, especially in the beginning when I had zero actual abundance. I had diminishing bank accounts. I had very limited confidence. All of these things were pretty lack full. 

	And it took me a minute to really understand that until I could believe that abundance was available, even when I didn?t have it in the traditional sense, that I did have it of generosity, of spirit, of other things, but that it was mine to choose when to give it. Actually, I think that Adam Grant and I talked about this in said virtual summit we were talking about earlier, where it is your boundary to decide. You are the one who gets to choose where it is doled out to, and it is often those takers and matchers who come upon you being like, oh, well, I hear that you?re a connector, and I hear that you want to do nice things for people, so let me take you up on that.

	It?s like, I didn?t offer you that. And I?m just a believer in general, that when someone approaches you with an ask, you as the asker need to be completely prepared for any answer, that it is not a preordained yes. And that as the recipient, you need to be comfortable with a yes or a no as well because a no that is ? or a yes that?s actually a no that you?re simply disguising is really a disservice to you and that person. So, it?s really, I?ve found, much more simple to flip it around and just be like listen, I don?t want to do you a disservice by only halfassedly doing this thing for you. I?m only committed to X, Y, and Z right now.

	Either here?s another resource that you could use, or I wish you all the best. And that has to be enough. And most of us, myself included, have those voices in our head that tell us, nope. They?re going to hold a grudge. They?re not going to be happy. But why wouldn?t you equally hold a grudge if you felt cornered into something? So, respect yourself enough first to make the boundaries for the stuff that you actually want to give too. 

Jaime:	Hard lessons learned. So, I so appreciate you saying this because I?ve lived through it, and mentally gone ? A, been the martyr, but B, mentally gone over it so many times by going well, wait. I don?t have to say yes, No. 1 ? there are so many evolutionary pieces of me that was like we?re here, now we?re here, now we?re here. Now, I?ve gotten way better. That being said, I still feel like ? and I chat with my girlfriends and business friends about this, on asking, and also asking without necessarily having to give something back right away.

	So, me and my friends do this too, even yesterday, twice this happened where business friends really legit, amazing business owners, I just wanted to help them. They needed help. And both of them, at the end of the call, how can I help you? What can I do? Can you give you ? let me send you a referral. Let me do the ? I was like guys, you really don?t have to, it?s okay. Because they have a hard time receiving also. So, what do you think about all those different pieces? There?s so much to it.

Darrah:	Totally. I mean, there are so many dynamics, and so many powerplays, and moves, and so many expectations, and narratives that we either adopted that weren?t ours or created as ours in the first place that we may or may not need to continue with. Something that I suggest to the listeners and maybe to you too, who want to test and play around with this idea of giving and taking is this challenge that I created called give it forward. And my suggestion is to do it for 30 days consecutively, but completely up to you, if you want to do it for 5, if you want to do it for 365, totally up to you.

	But what happens is that once a day, instead of passively, you proactively reach out to one person in your network and ask how you can be a resource to them in some way with no strings attached. So, you can simply say something like, hey, Jaime, I?ve made a commitment to do this give it forward challenge for 30 days, which means I?m going to try my best to be a resource to someone once a day with no strings attached, and today that lucky person is you. So, while I?m not a magical fairy, and I can?t promise that I?m going to do whatever it is that you need, or that I can make it a reality, I can promise that I?m going to try.

	So, might there be something that you?re working on that I might have a resource for, a connection I could make for you, or an ear to listen, or a problem you?re trying to tackle? What might that be? And so, what this does immediately, one, is hopefully, it deflates any part of someone?s natural ? what?s the word I?m looking for ? skepticism of oh, well, they must want something ? because immediately, you?re like, no strings attached. Also, as the recipient ? well, first, as the giver, it reminds you how important it is to be on the ready for people?s generosity. Meaning, you need to know how to ask for the help that you need when these opportunities arise.

	And then, from the recipient?s standpoint, it?s also that receiving, that you need to be willing and able enough to say someone is sharing this opportunity with me, and let me take them up on it, and not just pass it off and say nah, just give it to someone else, no big deal, or to lose the opportunity altogether, and be like, I don?t really know. Can I get a raincheck? You know what you need. Get on top of that and be prepared. And then, as the giver, it?s your job to go out and do something about it. And the thing that I love is one, it ends up being ? can I say bad words?

Jaime:	Yes, do it.

Darrah:	A fuckton of fun. And I get so much joy, the most joy in any consecutive amount of time, when I?m doing these challenges. But also, it gives you an opportunity in many instances to go back and pour into your network because often, they?re the people you?re going to make the connections to. So, it gives you an opportunity to nurture a person, one, then nurture another point of contact to make a three-way introduction, and let them go off, and do something great together. So, so many buckets are being hit in one place. And the other piece that I think?s a really positive byproduct is so many people say to me, I don?t have anything to give. How am I going to do this?

	It tells you and demonstrates really quickly how much that we each have to offer that we?re taking for granted. 

Jaime:	I love all that. I challenge everybody ? I feel like I do this innately, literally randomly. I?m doing meditation center for people, just random stuff, just because I love to give. Now, the problem that I have, and this is something that maybe I do 50-50, is exactly what you talked about, where people will go, let me help you. And I?d go, I?m good, no, don?t. And I wasn?t even ? either I didn?t want to receive and tell them anything, or the ask felt too big, or there was just all sorts of stories. And again, I?m maybe 50-50 now. I?m still working on this one.

	What more tips do you have on asking? Because even just asking, either out of the blue when you built up the deep relationship or responding to that question, I feel like there?s ? for me and for so many other people, there?s a lot going on with that too. 

Darrah:	Well, the first part, as the asker, I think it?s really critical because one of the things I think?s gotten completely bastardized is this over indulgence of hey, I just met you, what can I do to help you?

Jaime:	Thank you.

Darrah:	People think it?s now the hack to relationship depth, when actually, I think it?s really shitty because you?re putting a lot of onus and burden on the other people to be like, I don?t know you. I don?t know who you know. I don?t know what your skills are. I don?t know what you have to offer. And they?re just in this awkward position of well, is there this weird dynamic? Do I owe you? Is that the kind of person who you are? So, one, it?s ? that?s why I think it?s important to do this to people who you?re building a relationship with or who already know you to some degree.

	Some people do this in a very blind, pay for this person behind me at Starbucks kind of way, which is great too. Random acts of kindness, I?m never going to eschew. However, I think the beauty of this really is in the pouring into the relationships that you have because there?s already that level of trust, that is a lot different when you just come up to someone and be like hey, can I help you, because it feels like you?re trying to hack some relationship. That takes time. And that?s just the nature of it. So, to your question about asking, this isn?t an exact precise formula, and also, I understand that sometimes, we don?t have the luxury of time on our side. 

	When I got my company started, and I was 25, and I had been laid off three times in a row, and I had a mortgage, and I was terrified I was going to foreclose, and my bank account was right about negative every other day, I didn?t really feel like I had this luxury of time to take my time, but I still acted in that way because I knew that it was better than being transactional, and cold, and all these other things. However, the ask for me is really about this equation of give, give, or value, value, ask, value, value, or give, give. So, it?s trying to give twice as much value out in the world as I?m taking, at least.

	For me, I?m sure it?s more than that because I love to help people, and I love to connect the dots. It?s the reason I think I was put on the planet, was to connect the dots for people to help elevate what they?re doing in the world. So, for you, and I think for both of us, it feels like a very natural thing. But for a lot of people, I think they do keep a list in their heads, or they do think it has to be this you do for me, I do for you. And so, when you?re asking, when you?ve already given a lot, there is this natural reciprocity reflex, and it?s never something that we want to take advantage of and manipulate.

	So, we don?t do it because one day we?re storing up the bank account balance, so we can go and be like oh, time to take away and take my ? do my transaction and get my debit out. That?s not why we do it. However, we are in community both to support one another and have some fun, but also because people are the keys to the doors that we want to open that access the success that we?re seeking. And we?re happy to do it for other people. And there becomes, like I said, this reciprocity reflex that people are like well, you?ve really invested a lot in me. It would be my pleasure to do the same for you in response.

	And so, you never do it because again, you want them to feel beholden to it or obligated. You don?t want them to feel pressure. And so, the other piece of this too is, people joke about this a lot, especially fundraisers, that when you want advice, ask for money, and when you want money, ask for advice. And I think it?s no different here, that typically, when I need something, if I don?t feel super tight with someone that I can just ask it directly, often I ask for advice. And I?ll be like, who do you know that might have a resource for this, or who is this person? And often, that person will raise their hand themselves because they feel comfortable enough to do so, but they don?t feel backed into a corner.

Jaime:	I love that tactic because even when I came out with my book, I came out with my book because it seemed like an easier ask than to go crazy with a course or whatever, back in the day. And I remember being like, why couldn?t I even ask for what I wanted? But it was hey, if you don?t mind helping ? you know what I mean? And it was ? and everybody came back saying, in a second, of course I would. And that taught me so many lessons, where I was like, that was easier than I thought. Maybe I do have more social capital ? many years ago.

	And so, fast forward to now though, it?s funny because as you grow and evolve, the network gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and bigger. And I feel like mine is now so large that it?s hard to keep the connections with so many. So, do you do the, I have the top 100 people in my net ? I mean, it sounds like you have a very wide network also. How can you do so many touchpoints with so many people?

Darrah:	I mean, you?re talking about Dunbar?s rule, with the 5, 50, and 100, that we can all have this maximum of 155 people, give or take, with whom we?re actually in any amount of touch with, 5 inner circle, 50 intermediate, and 100 on the external. And I?m a believer in that too. Obviously, social media becomes a way that keeps people in our purview and top of mind. I certainly don?t have a list that?s like oh, you?ve been moved from 50 to 51, and you?ve been downgraded. Oh, you?re out altogether. But I definitely have an informal knowledge of that.

	And so, one of the strategies that I have because I?m not a CRM user is in my Google Calendar, I have on a monthly basis, on recurring daily tasks that are color-coded, what I call reconnect files. And in these reconnect files, I have two versions. I have one for people whom I want to stay in regular touch with because I just really like them, we have a lot that we can do together, or whatever the reason. And I put their name, I put their company, I put a few notes in it, and I just have it recur on a monthly basis. And the second one is, it just says reconnect. 

	And then, I open it up, and it has 10 to 15 names with a little snippet about them. And I?ll scan through it once a month when it comes up. And I?ll think, is there a press piece that I can send them? Is there some article I read? Is there a book they might want to read? Is there an introduction I should make? Should I just send them a quick text and say, you popped into my mind, how are you? All of those things matter. All of those things really help. And then, on a more major side, my fianc? and I love to host. We have dinner parties very often, and we bring people together who have never met each other in most cases, and they have no idea who?s showing up.

	And that?s been a really powerful way for us to nurture our community. I throw networking events for a living in one of my businesses, and that?s been a really cool way to meet a lot of people I wouldn?t meet before, nurture many relationships in one place, throw in some of the people that are in the 100 and beyond numbers, of hey, I don?t actually have time and space energetically to meet one on one, but hey, come here. I?ll introduce you to 200 other people, and we?ll get to hang out. So, there?s a lot of different ways that I?ve found to nurture those relationships.

Jaime:	I love that. I do all those things that you just said. Yours is a little more organized than mine, let me say that. But it is, there?s too many ? there?s so many that, even just have having people come, and contact me, and want to do one on one meetings. I?m like, my schedule. So, Internet Marketing Party here in Austin. I go there. I invite everybody to come in. My friend David runs it, so I don?t even have to put anything on. Go you, for actually running the events. That?s really impressive.

Darrah:	David Gonzalez?

Jaime:	Yes, yes, a very good friend. 

Darrah:	Oh, funny. Small world.

Jaime:	Yeah, of course, everybody knows the networkers. And it is ? it?s one of those things where now everybody knows Da ? he runs Internet Marketing Party, so apparently you know him too. How funny. But because he is one of those connectors, and it?s a potent spot to go, everybody needs to know him. So, he knew from a long time ago that he was really good at that. You knew from a long time ago that you ? I?m assuming ? that you were really good at that. What about the people that kind of suck at it, or don?t think that they?re good at this stuff? Do you have any tips for them?

Darrah:	 Yeah. I think one of the things that I hear a lot, it?s like oh, I?m an introvert. I can?t do this. 1.) Shy and introvert are not the same thing. 2.) I?m not an extrovert, I?m an ambivert. 

Jaime:	Me too.

Darrah:	So, I?m equal parts of both. So, these things drain me as much as they give me life, and so I completely empathize with people who are like, I can?t do this. But choose the things that work for you. So, if you love one on one meetings, get on Zoom and Skype calls, or go to coffee and lunch or dinner. If you like small groups, host little drink gatherings, or coffee meetings, or dinner parties. If you are a big old extrovert, and you love bringing lots of people together, host these big scale events. Choose what works for you. I don?t love lots of one on one meetings because I am an efficiency monster.

	I?m obsessed with efficiency, and I feel like by the time I?ve commuted to the meeting and been in the meeting, I?m like, let?s just get on the phone, even if it means video, or here?s 10 other options of how we can bucket this in with something else. Big believer in integration, like hey, you want to hang out? I?m taking a walk. Hey, you want to hang out? I?m going to yoga class. Do you want to come ? and finding ways to make these things work together.

Jaime:	I love all these tips. You can I should be friends because I am like, you are me, except more organized. 

Darrah:	Well, my [inaudible] [00:24:55] lives in Austin, so you can have him until I?m there. 

Jaime:	Yes, we got one of them. So, let?s talk about Life by Design because I know, before when we were coming in, I was saying how much my clients really need this. Because in the business space, especially in the masculine business side, when I worked with a lot of men, it?s like ? and then we?re hunters, and we go get the thing, just like I was talking about on the networking side too. But even on the integration of life, which we are all humans, we usually have families, or significant others, or trying to date, or what ? we?re more than just our business, which not everybody remembers.

	So, what is Life by Design to you, and what is that process?

Darrah:	So, this is a big one. So, for me ? because we were talking about this a bit before, of where is business, and where is life? Exactly like you said, I believe that we don?t live in silos. We can?t contextualize each part of our life and separate it out. They?re not separable. And this is actually one of my favorite things about social media, is that it?s forcing us to come to reckoning with the fact that our lives don?t live, like here?s my work hat and here?s my personal hat. It?s like, no, they all live in one space. And whether it?s LinkedIn, where you think you?re being personal, it?s still you, and people are blending and seeing all of you.

	And I love that because it?s forcing us to be more holistic and authentic across all of these arenas. But ? so Life by Design to me is ? I?m going to use ? it?s my drinking word, is intention. It?s using intention to pause and stop for long enough to say, what does success really mean and look like for me? And is that different than what everyone else?s versions of this, like the keeping up with the Joneses? or Kardashians? way, and how do I really pause for long enough to do the gut check to know, are the choices I?m making in alignment with what I actually value, and what actually matters to me?

	And if I were to do a deathbed exercise, and project into that future, and look back, and say, are the choices and the life that I am creating for myself now really moving me in a direction that I?m going to feel is what I hope to be able to say at the end of my life? Then, it?s time to pause and rearchitect your life and design it for yourself. And it sounds a little fanciful. And it sounds like a lot of us, like oh, we don?t have the time, or the money, or the energy to stop and do this. And we?re so far down a path. None of us are too far gone. It is never too late to reinvent. It is never too late to reiterate.

	And typically, I think when we get stuck in those places of thinking that?s the case, it?s because 1.) We?re not surrounded ourselves with people who are demonstrating that this is possible, 2.) Again, we?re probably playing a lot of stories in our heads that have been fed to us, and we?ve just adopted as truth, and 3.) We?re not pausing long enough to say, does this actually feel like what I want to do, or am I just continuing on autopilot because that?s just easier than addressing what might feel harder in the short-term of reiterating and rejiggering something to make it a change? Because none of us love change, but is it worth it in the long run? Absolutely, yes. 

	And then, to the business piece, I?m such a believer that our businesses should fuel and fund the life that we want rather than running our lives, which many of us let them do. And I was very guilty of doing this for many years, where I thought bigger is always better, more money, more employees, more press hits, more you name it, had to be the way because that?s what was celebrated in this rock star entrepreneurship culture. And then, I started to realize that lifestyle entrepreneurship was not something to be ashamed of, that it was not something that was getting enough credit in the world, but really, this business can do good for the world. 

	It can do great things for the people who are employed by it. And it can free you up to have the freedom, and the financial stability, and the flexibility of your time that you probably signed up for in the first place. 

Jaime:	See, I love ? the whole thing that you?re talking about right now is sort of why I built Eventual Millionaire. And it?s funny because like I was saying before, even Seth Godin?s like, why the million? And you ask, why the million? That?s why we were talking about it earlier. Because it?s not about the money, it?s ? old Jaime was very much into, but that is the goal, and we shove everything down. I don?t care if I like it in the moment. Hustlers and people that hustle can shove that down, and just keep moving forward, and achieve whatever they want to achieve. 

	And then, in reality, when you?re like oh, I kind of hate my life even though I designed it on purpose, that was the big ah-ha for me because when I designed my life for the job side of things, it?s like, well, everybody told me that was the right way to go. But then, when I designed the life that I thought I wanted on the business side, I was like, it?s still ? bigger is not always better, people. I really don?t necessarily need to go faster. I would rather do more paintings, or ? you know what I mean, instead of necessarily doing that. But that level of checking in, you say pausing, as if that sounds so easy. And man, that is one of the hardest things for me to do.

Darrah:	Totally.

Jaime:	So, do you have any tips for that or for anybody listening that can really feel like that their mind is moving in a million miles a second anyway, and the taking a second of awareness is not even registering quite yet?

Darrah:	Yeah, I?m really glad you?re pausing on this idea of pause because culturally, we are told not to stop, to ingest every bit of content and media, to have our schedules full. Think about it, when you introduce yourself to someone, and like, how are you? And people say busy as though it?s a state of being, and it?s this badge of honor, of oh, I only slept four hours. It?s like, I?m so sorry for you. But most people are like oh, wow, you must be crushing it. It?s like, no, you?re actually probably harming yourself in the long run, and that?s not a great place to continue to exist in. 

	So, Deepak taught me a lot about pausing. And one of the things that he really helped continuously remind me of is that meditation and mindfulness don?t have to happen in these grand gestures. They don?t have to be you going off to an ashram and doing a 10-day Vipassana silent meditation retreat. They don?t have to be every morning, you sit quietly in perfect posture for 20 minutes or more, certainly not more than twice a day that way. It can look a lot of ways. For me, often, it?s driving, and turning off the music, and just paying attention to my breathing, and changing its cadence. 

	Sometimes, it?s being between a podcast, and then an interview for a Forbes article, and then a coaching client, and then writing content for something, and just taking a breath, and feeling my feet on the ground, and being like, phew, I?m here, I?m checking in. That?s good. We can keep going. Those little tiny moments of mindfulness go a really, really long way. Same thing with eating. How many times do you get through a meal, and you?re like what did I even just eat? And sometimes, just pausing enough to understand what you?re putting in your mouth, to feel it in your mouth, to sense the flavors. Tiny things can go the long distance for you.

Jaime:	It?s so amazing to hear you say that because I?m thinking of this as my older self, going ? I remember hearing that from people and going, yeah, right. You don?t know that I do ? that there?s ? that my schedule?s this tight, and the ? and what I found, especially with coaching clients or with interviews, that I need gaps, and I need ? and I was intentionally going, I?m meditating four times a day for three minutes, you know what I mean? Just to ? and I call it recalibration too. So, I can just recalibrate, and remember I am a body, and a human because sometimes, I?d cut off at the neck.

	I?m all head, and all I do is think about things all day long. And I have a daily meditation practice where I have to. My kids think I?m crazy if I don?t. I am in a different state completely if I don?t do those pieces. But, dude, it?s been 10 years. It was not a ? I?m an overachiever, so the fact that ? I tell anybody it takes 10 years. They?re like, thanks, that?s not what I want to hear. But it?s those small incremental things. So, how long did it take you to really start embodying that and to really get better at the practice? Because it?s just a practice that we?re trying to get a little bit better at every day.

Darrah:	You?re right. It?s a practice, meaning we?re constantly practicing it. It?s not something you master. And what you talked about, about the gaps is so critical. I had to learn to create margin in my schedule, and block things, and be like, I?m only going to back to back things for a certain amount of time. And this is one of the reasons I don?t hand my schedule to someone else because only I understand the rhythms and those intricacies of hey, I haven?t had a chance to eat in 18 hours. I need to build that in. These are not healthy practices. I still mess this up because I get into the zone and forget.

	But having some margin of time to check in, and I like the body scan that you?re talking about, that often, I?ll realize my shoulders are up to my ears, and I?ve been holding a lot of tension in my jaw, and everything is constricted because I?ve just been in it. And then, you just shake it out, and let it go, and breathe. And you?re like oh, that really re-centered me and brought me back. It?s not fancy, but ? so for me, it was just testing different stuff. I learned every type of meditation under the sun, from Zen, to Buddhist, to transcendental, and beyond, until I found one that works for me. And that was really critical because there is not a one size fits all.

	And then, also, giving myself some leniency to say, I did transcendental meditation religiously two times a day for 23 minutes each time, twice a day, for about a year and a half, until I started being like, I?m actually resenting this. Now, it just feels like a thing to check off that I have to do. And so, I started giving myself enough grace to say, what actually feels like something that you want to do? And I start listening to Deepak?s guided meditations. And I started just doing breath-based meditations or mantra-based meditations and letting it be what it was because the last thing that your mindfulness or meditation practices do is stress you out more.

Jaime:	Seems logical, but sometimes it doesn?t even register.

Darrah:	Totally. If we just let it be this one more thing to check off and do, when really, maybe that?s what we need to do until we habituate it. But then, hopefully, it becomes something, at least sometimes, that you?re like, I?m really looking forward to this because I know that this is valuable and keeps me sane because me 10, 15 years ago, at the beginning of my career, was a basket case. Every single thing that was a problem, a customer complaint, an error, an e-mail that didn?t go out, an e-mail that did go out that shouldn?t have gone out, was a fire drill for me. It would take my adrenals to full blast, and I would be such a mess, and everything was this life or death feeling.

	And the second I got more consistent in a meditation practice was the moment I was able to recognize and kind of get outside of myself when these things would happen. And I would just think, what can I do about it, or will this matter, or what?s step one, instead of just go to the ends of the Earth thinking oh, everyone?s going to fire us, and we?re not going to have a business, and I?m going to be homeless. And it didn?t have to be a disaster.

Jaime:	Oh, man. All of these things, there?s so much to unpack in there. But I want to highlight what you said about making it habitual because I had to make it a list before ? because I would completely forget. So, if it was ? I literally had a list that was like, go out in nature, go get the mail, silly things that was just trying to have those gaps and have something that I know I could put in that space that would just make me remember because I feel like I just forget. You just go in go mode. And I completely negate myself. So, I love that you said that you have to make it habitual.

	How did you do that though? Do you do the 21-day challenge of ? a year and a half of transcendental meditation is a long time to make it habitual.

Darrah:	I mean, when I took that course, I think part of it was just putting skin in the game, that that course is $1,500.00, or at least it was when I took it. And I went out to San Francisco because I wanted to be in a different environment. And I studied it for three days. You?re required to. So, when I came back, I was like, I have gone all in on this. I?m going to give it my all, give it the old college try. And I?m the type of person who?s good at homework. You give me something to do, and I?m going to get it done. And so, when they said, you do it first thing in the morning, and you do it before you eat dinner, I was like, great. It is on my calendar.

	I think I literally put it on my calendar, on a rotating thing, on a daily basis so that there it was, and it couldn?t get moved out. And I also got really comfortable with shifting, that ? I spend a lot of time on airplanes. I travel about half of my life for pleasure. It was part of the design that I created for myself. And I work wherever I am. And I had to get comfortable with this is another great lesson in mindfulness and meditation, that I could be in an airport. I could be on a park bench. I could be on the airplane seat and still meditate because that?s life.

	That there?s going to be things that are getting in your space, in your space, and are throwing you off your equilibrium, but to be comfortable navigating those environments and circumstances that are outside of your control is the entire point in the first place, when you?re quieting yourself. So, it just gave me this extra step to do it. But again, then, I ? once that year and a half happened, that wasn?t the intention. It wasn?t like do this for 18 months. But I did that self-check as I continued to do, and I realized there has to be a shift in the cadence of this.

Jaime:	I want to ask a bit of a different question. When it comes to measuring things ? because it sounds like you?re good at measuring things in general in life. And these soft skills are very hard to measure. I?ve been doing meditation for this long, and I am better, but who the heck knows what scale of better that is? So, how do you do that, or how do you help your clients really understand how far they?ve come when it?s very squishy?

Darrah:	It depends because again, this goes back to what does success mean to someone, and how do you define it. Sometimes, it?s metric oriented, sometimes it?s more qualitative than quantitative. And so, for me personally, I keep a daily journal every morning, where I go, and it?s usually very centered around gratitude. And I also am very transparent in the way that I share my content, whether it be on Instagram, or my weekly e-mails, or anything. And so, I can even tell, based on what I?m sharing, how things are shifting and adjusting. Also, too, again, the people around you are mirrors.

	So, I can often tell by the people around me, what they?re telling me and reflecting back about me specifically, and/or just where they are, and how I feel in response to that, where I am. And then, every year on my birthday, which is in mid-November, I do this annual wrap up that I make public because it?s an accountability, and because I know that people have told me how much it helps and encourages them, of everything I did and everything I learned to the best of my knowledge in the last year.

	And it becomes a time capsule where I think I ? I think this will be my 10th year in November, where I can go back and be like whoa, that was really a different point in my life, or wow, I really made all of this progress. And those have been really, really helpful things, especially with that six-week timeframe between birthday and New Year?s, where often so many of us are stopping to think, what is it we want to create and generate this year, or what do I want my life to feel like? I use mantras of this is what I want it to feel like, and I usually pick one to three, and that?s what this year is going to be about.

	And that really helps me get centered of let?s look back before we look forward. And that?s a couple of the ways that I track how the progress goes.

Jaime:	I?m laughing because I do almost all of those things, especially the time capsule thing. I have a thing for recording things, and just so that way, I can go back because I remember, I did that even when I was in ? had a day job. I remember going, and now I made $17.00 an hour. And then, it was like, now, I make this much, look. And it was very ? I wasn?t very good at this. It was just very mechanical. And now, it?s such a practice. And it?s amazing to be able to go back and see who you were back then, and the way that you thought is just mind-blowingly amazing.

	I know we have to start wrapping up.

Darrah:	So ?

Jaime:	Oh, go ahead.

Darrah:	I want to share something. So, one of the things that I think underpins some of this is confidence. And I had alluded earlier to the fact that I really struggled with confidence. My Achilles? heel always has been this you aren?t good enough narrative. And so, there?s a few things that I started to do that I think really help undergird a lot of this too. One is this idea of what I call borrowed confidence, that when there are people who see things in you that maybe you don?t accept or see in yourself, that you borrow it until you do.

	So, Deepak?s story is a prime example of this, that when he reached out to me, and I?m thinking, why the hell are you asking me to do this? Why do you see that I?m the person that should be capable of this in the first place? I didn?t see that in myself whatsoever. But in that moment, I made the decision to say, he sees something in you that you don?t see in yourself. So, it is your responsibility to wear and borrow that confidence until you can own it and believe it for yourself. And that does not have to be a Deepak Chopra. That could be your mom. 

	And so, secondarily, the corollary to this is, I keep what I call a hype file in Evernote, and you can keep it anywhere, where every time someone gives me, usually in writing, a text, or an e-mail, or on Instagram, or a DM, something that?s really kind about me, I keep it in a file. So, in these moments when I?m like, I?m stuck, and I hate myself, or I haven?t made any progress, I can go back and look at it, and be like no, this is bullshit because you a year ago never would have gotten that accommodation from someone. You a year ago weren?t even close to this point.

	So, stop and pause ? again, pause long enough to think back and realize, me a year ago, or me ? I?ll go with two years ago. Me two years ago hadn?t even yet made the decision to go out in the world proclaiming this work. She hadn?t introduced herself as ? didn?t really want to be coach, who became coach because people forced her to, and it was really transformative, and she loved it. She wasn?t working with people like Deepak, and Adam, and Shaq, and Seth Godin, and Jillian Michaels, and Bill Belichick, and all of these ridiculous people.

	She was just sitting at home doubting herself and growing these businesses really quietly in the background. She wasn?t writing a book. She didn?t have a literary agent. She wasn?t on the cover of things. None of these things were a thing two years ago. And in ? there are plenty of moments now, in real time, where I sit around, and I?m like oh my gosh, I?m so ? there?s so much to do, so much forward to go. But then, I have to stop and give credit to that girl two years ago who <p data-wpview-marker="%5Baudio%20cuts%20out%5D">.</p> [00:42:59] today was possible because without that, I wouldn?t be here in the first place.

Jaime:	That is amazing. My fact hurts from smiling so much from everything that you?ve said so far, I?m just saying, just because it resonates so highly, that the confidence ? I have a folder just like that too, and it?s that reminder. It?s us talking, and supporting ourselves, and setting ourselves up for that, knowing who we are better than anyone else. And it?s so amazing to hear your story going through everything, and I can imagine 5, 10 years from now, when we reconnect again, and go oh, yeah, remember that girl back then? She did all these things. Because you?re the same you, you?re just evolving as a human.

	And I know you?ve got a call soon, so we have to start wrapping up. Otherwise, we would chat forever. But what is one action listeners can take this week to help move them forward towards their goal of a million?

Darrah:	It will always in my book be about relationships, and that will always be partnered with mindset. So, one is get your mindset right and pause, and then number two is be really intentional in the relationships that you are building. Do the housekeeping of the people that you?re keeping in your close sphere to make sure that they?re bringing you up, and you ? they ? that they?re not keeping you at homeostasis, nor are they bringing you down, and be nurturing, and pouring into those relationships because there will come a time, like we talked about, when you need their help, and they?re going to be happy to do it because all of the goodness that you?ve poured into them. 

Jaime:	Thank you so much for coming on the show. Where do you find more about you, and get all those amazing interviews, and all that fun stuff too?

Darrah:	It?s all at my website, darrah.co, it?s D-A-R-R-A-H dot co. You can get tons of freebies on a lot of the type of stuff we talked about. You can see the series with Deepak. There?s a free masterclass Deepak and I did on getting anything you want. So, have at it. It actually also has a guided meditation on it.

Jaime:	Oh, awesome.

Darrah:	So, if people are trying to get one of those, Deepak and I do one together.

Jaime:	Well, now I?m going to go download that. Thank you very much. I so appreciate you taking the time to come on the show today. Thanks so much.

Darrah:	Thank you. It?s been a pleasure.

Categories: All, Featured Millionaire Interview, Millionaire Interviews

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