Building A Virtual Team That Moves Your Business Forward with Dave Nevogt

Co-founder of Hubstaff.com – Dave Nevogt

Dave Nevogt is the co-founder of Hubstaff, a time tracking software for teams in a virtual world. In this interview we cover tactics to vet a team that will propel your business forward, how business owners can determine when to start hiring a virtual staff, and where to find the best people (and why they aren’t where you think). Hubstaff is a tool I use daily in my business. It has helped my team stay accountable, on track, and focused!

Resources Mentioned in the Podcast:

Go to Hubstaff.com for more info!

Thanks so much for listening!

Transcript:

Announcer: Welcome to the Eventual Millionaire podcast - with your host, Jaime Tardy. Real talk and real advice from real millionaires, with a sharp focus on you - the Eventual Millionaire.

Jaime: Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I'm Jaime Tardy and I'm excited to have Dave Nevogt on the show. I had to ask him how to pronounce his last name. I hope everyone is excited because Dave knows a ton about remote management with teams and so the reason why I found him was because I actually use his site, Hubstaff.com, and he ended up e-mailing me and we were e-mailing back and forth and he makes a perfect candidate for the show so I'm so excited to have him on. He's a serial entrepreneur - he owned golf eCommerce websites and a couple of other companies, he's been amazing, and I'm so excited to meet him in person - well, in internet world. Nice to have you on the show today, Dave.

Dave: Nice to be here. Thank you.

Jaime: So why don't you tell me a little bit about Hubstaff? Because it's not that old right now and I'd love to hear about how it started.

Dave: It started at the end of 2012.

Jaime: Okay, really new.

Dave: I had been looking for software similar since about 2008 for my own remote team. I had ideas and thoughts in my head on how to help remote teams work better together, collaborate together, and just to ease the pain that managers feel when they've got people all over the world that they're trying to manage at the same time. My thought is that we should be able to do that in less time per day, versus spending all day long managing your people and not moving your business forward. So that's the whole idea behind it. I am not a developer by trade so I had to find a developer and I found who is now a good friend of mine, Jerod Brown, my partner on Hubstaff, on LinkedIn, and we met for lunch and I had to talk him into the business and sell him on the business, which is common when you're starting something. We got together, did it and it's going great now.

Jaime: Did he have his own business or his own thing before hand and how did you convince him to say yes? Because a lot of people ask this question.

Dave: Yes, he had his own business. He's doing several different things; he's really a freelancer, so he works by the hour for various clients, so his time is valuable. He was trying to start another company as well and I think he saw the potential that Hubstaff might have - that's it's global, a low overhead business once it's built and obviously the need, going forward, as we move more into a virtual team environment.

Jaime: That's awesome. So it launched at the end of 2012 - what did you do to really start getting it going? It just came out of beta not so long ago so tell us about that transition.

Dave: Luckily my partner Jerod understands a lot about the startup scene so it's common, I guess, in that world to just throw your product out there, let people try it and get your feedback from them. That was kind of new to me, a new thought to me, it's not something that I have done but it worked out well, it was a new experience throughout the beta period. Throughout that time you just build your product bit by bit and release new features as you develop them, get feedback and it ends up being a version one product that you can actually release and charge for.

Jaime: Someone recommended Hubstaff to me - I needed a thing and I just used it. I didn't even realize it was a beta, it just worked really well, so I didn't realize that it had beta underneath it, which was great. Tell me a little bit about managing remote teams, because I do this and we've chatted a few times, like when I've needed to add someone else, so tell me about your experience in building virtual teams and what I want to have for everybody listening is some really good tools and tactics they can use to build their own team that is a real time, not just random contractors all over the place but someone who will really help propel your business forward instead of causing more problems than they're worth. So tell me more about that.

Dave: It's obviously a very large topic. There are a lot of ways you can go, a lot of people have different thoughts on it. I personally think that the better employees you can find the better it is on you because it does end up being so much less management. I think a lot of people try to get away with getting their team at low rates, they're mislead by the thought that you can hire overseas and all of a sudden you're going to get a rock star for $5 an hour. That's just not the way it is. You get what you pay for. My theory is that you want to have a team built up in preparation for what you're going to do going forward so I'm always trying to find new people to add to my own team, even if I don't necessarily have a project that is pressing. So now I've got a video guy, I've got the web side covered, we've got programming, copywriters, regular lower end utility people that you can use for everything, a support team - the whole thing fits together and I think a lot of people think that they have to get all the people full time. I don't believe in getting someone full time, I think it's better to hire on a part time basis and just pay for the time you use. I think that most workers don't have a problem with that, especially if you make that known upfront.

Jaime: Do you give them a general idea of how many hours they will work and is it consistent or just "I'll reach out to you when I need you," kind of a thing?

Dave: You've got to commit to them as well. You've got to commit to them, not necessarily a certain amount of hours, and that's the thing, I think that when you find somebody good you're going to want to use them more and more and more so they end up getting more work but initially you can go, say, 15-20 hours a week and see how it works out. That leads me to another point which is vetting your team. So a video editor, for example - that would be more on a per-project basis, not even on an hourly basis at all.

Jaime: Can you walk me through it? Because the people that are listening are probably small business, maybe solopreneurs, but people that know that they need a team but they feel like they don't have enough money so either they want to hire someone cheap for a couple of bucks an hour in the Philippines or something like that or they're scared because they've never managed anybody before. What would you tell them, step by step? How do we a) know when the right time is to start hiring people, especially for 15-20 hours, not just an hour a week, and b) how do we find those people? Let's walk through that sequence.

Dave: Sure. What I do to find the people is several different things, actually. LinkedIn is huge - I'll go and do a LinkedIn search, I have InMail setup so that I can contact anybody, you don't have to have their e-mail address, you don't have to be connected to them, you can just contact them, so you can actually do a search on LinkedIn and the theory is that if they don't have a LinkedIn profile it's probably somebody who's not too proud of what they're doing anyway and it's easy to get fooled by somebody who has a good portfolio or whatever on a freelancing site but it could be somebody else's portfolio, you have no idea. My thing is going directly to getting some background information on the person through profiles and the profiles could be on LinkedIn, they could be on places like Stack Overflow, if you're looking for a programmer, and you're looking for people who have contributed to that community in some way. So like for a programmer on Stack Overflow you're looking for someone who has answered other people's questions - that proves their knowledge and you would never be able to find that person outside of a site like that. They're not going to be out on a freelancing site looking to get work because they don't need work but that doesn't mean they're going to turn the work down if you offer it to them. Like Jerod is an example - I found him on LinkedIn. I did a search, I wanted someone local, I'm in Indianapolis and I wanted somebody here, local, so I did the search and he popped up, I e-mailed him, it took a few responses back and forth and now I've got a great partner.

Jaime: I love that. Because a lot of times people say "Go to oDesk, go to Elance," and you're saying that a lot of time the rock stars aren't there, saying "Give me work right now," because they're busy with work they already have.

Dave: Even if you are looking for that lower end worker that you could never find, they might be overseas, they might be wherever - think about it, they're going to have a LinkedIn profile, they're going to want to present themselves in a professional manner, they're going to want to show what they've done, even if the stuff they have done is for a big company or whatever you can still get on there. If you're looking for, for example, a PPC advertising person, on a totally part time basis, maybe only a few hours a week, maybe on a project basis. You can find somebody who works for a top notch agency and they can work on the side - so you do a search for pay per click management, you get the top results, send a few e-mails to them and see if they want to work on the side.

Jaime: I like that. That's a really good tip. I'm sure a lot of people are going "If I find these amazing rock stars I'm going to have to pay them $50 an hour and I can't afford that." I'm sure that goes through a lot of people's heads so give me some tips on that.

Dave: It depends on the project and the position you're hiring for. Going back to that pay per click example, $50 an hour is not an expensive rate because look at how much you're spending on the ads. What's important is you get it set up the right way the first time and that might take a rock star four hours of time, so $200, versus finding someone who doesn't know what they're doing for $5 an hour.

Jaime: Wasting so much money it's ridiculous.

Dave: Yeah, so I'm looking for that expertise to get things done the right way. I've written articles on that too. It's totally based on looking at your overall budget - you'd be so supposed what a programmer for $75-100 an hour can do to move your business forward versus someone who's $20 an hour in terms of management time and thinking on their own and being able to present ideas to you and do things in a better way because, like I said, I'm not a programmer so I don't know. I'm looking to not only outsource the actual work itself but the specs and the planning process and the way things are done.

Jaime: That's huge.

Dave: So you're paying for that knowledge.

Jaime: Exactly - you're looking for people who are amazing and can move you forward without you having to carry them along the way or push them as they're going.

Dave: I've done it both ways and the person who is not experienced is learning on your dime and it is just not good. That's not to say that you can't find amazing programmers for low dollar per hour rates. You can totally do that, it just takes a lot of vetting and that's where the whole theory of try before you buy comes in - give them a test task. It could be anything, like if you're looking for a web designer and you've got a logo on your to do list that's been waiting to be redone for four months but you've never been able to do it because you don't have a designer on your staff and it's just something that you don't want to mess with. Go out to LinkedIn, go to some good design forums, see who it is who's answering people's questions and who's involved in the community and then approach them and have them recreate your logo. It wouldn't be any more than, I would say, $100-150 to do a logo and now you've got your logo and you'll hopefully have started to move a relationship forward with a designer and there's nothing wrong with paying $300 and having three logos designed by three different designers and now you've got a relationship with three designers and two of them might not be willing to do anything for you, going forward, but one of them you might find that you've got a designer that can do all of this amazing stuff that you didn't know about before and it all happened because you were out there looking for the next member of your team - and, again, I don't look at a team as being full time, I look at it as benign relationships that you have out there in the virtual world that you can draw on whenever you need, both for advice and work that you need done.

Jaime: I do that exact same thing - when I got a new transcriptionist I hired three and then I had them all do it and now I have two on my team so if one is too busy I can use the other one because they're both really good and that definitely helps me, to know that I have a backup, and they both know it and they're both great with it and that has just been an amazing experience. I have a lot of contractors and I have people that are on my team full time but how do we get them all to be team-like? So my team that works full time for me, we're close, we have weekly meetings, we do all of that fun stuff, but there's all of these random people out there like the transcriptionists that aren't really involved. How do you get that team mentality when they're all over the place?

Dave: Software. Software like Basecamp. I use TeamworkPM, Asana, all of these different project management software. I think part of that is just your expectations and setting your expectations with your team, even if they are not with you full time. I don't know exactly what you mean in terms of being team like. You can only expect so much because if they are a freelancer and they're coming in for 2-3 hours a week the expectation has to be there on your end too, on the manager's end, to say "I can't expect that much from that person." But the main thing is communication and if you assign a task you shouldn't have to assign that task, as a manager, more than once, and you shouldn't have to do it when the contractor is awake and working at their desk - you just have to type it into the software and have a blueprint developed for what you expect to be done and the better you blueprint that project upfront the less questions and discussions are going to be needed down the road. So you spend your time, your working hours, planning out a project and then you upload all of that information into the software and then you just make it known that if they have any questions you're here, that you expect them to ask questions if they have any, obviously, and just putting forth that mentality of "this is the project, this is how I want it to be done and I expect it done by the deadline," and if they can't do it then you can find somebody else who will.

Jaime: Let's talk about that. What I've experienced from working with people, and I know my friends have experienced this to, is, when you work with someone virtually, they seem really, really great and you're like -They're amazing! I'll give them a bunch of stuff because I've tested and I've vetted them," and then they disappear or can't come in on the deadlines or even close to the deadlines and you're like "They were so good at first! I'm not sure what happened." Do you just fire them? What advice do you give in that situation?

Dave: It's very important to have follow up as well, from both sides. My calendar, or not even in my calendar but just in my mind, really, is that I follow up every day on the projects. I may have, say, 30 projects going on.

Jaime: That's a lot of projects.

Dave: But it's really easy, every day, to say "Hey, give me an update on what's going on here." Obviously you know what's going on with each programmer or member of your team as the days go on - you know what they're working on, or at least you should. If you don't, as the manager, that's kind of on you. I throw a lot of it back on the manager - you can't expect that much from your team if you're not, as the manager, willing to put in your part. Sometimes you can if you're really got A players but with B and C players you're going to need to follow up and that's just the reality of it.

Jaime: What's so hard, though, is that it's so time consuming. Do you have any tips or tricks, or anything like that, that will help? Because I personally check in with my team and that takes a lot of time, to check in every day, especially if you're the sole manager and you have a team, so you not only have to get your work done but you have to manage your team at the same time and things can just get a little insane. So do you have any ways to make it quicker or easier on the manager?

Dave: Blueprints upfront. Blueprints and specifying the exact details of the project upfront. If you're not the expert on what you're hiring out for, do as much work as you can to get them to show you plans and ideas and the way that they're speccing it out upfront. Decide on that upfront. I don't know about your projects but depending on the projects that need doing, like program or website testing takes forever, just checking out if the process is right on the backend, checking out a DVD on your ecommerce site or whatever it is, making sure the whole process works from the checkout page to getting them into the software, to collecting their credit card, to putting on your customer auto responder, all of these different things involved in product delivery, all of that stuff, a lot of that is on the manager and that stuff is really, really hard to ever get rid of, that side of it, but if it's something that could be done on a repetitive basis, like writing an article, you've got to have that exact template for the article that you want to be written out upfront. For what I have, on articles, I've got the exact format, the number of words, who it's written by, the voice, the audience, all of these different things need to be told to the writer upfront so that they get an idea. What happens when you do that is you get a better job done anyway; you get better quality of work back.

Jaime: I love that idea of having a template for something like that so that all you have to do is send it to them. Do you have any other examples of things like that, that you've done to make working with contractors easier? Like a template for writing is a great one - do you have anything else like that?

Dave: I have templates and processes for everything. If you challenge yourself you can blueprint everything, every process that's done. Design is really hard because it's creative and so is copywriting, copywriting is pretty hard too, because those things are very creative. Again, we're not experts at that so it's hard for us to blueprint, but everything else in your business, whether it's your lead flow, how you're getting customers, small things that you're doing in your business to get customers in, that stuff, just anything like commenting or landing page design for different industries - there are several things that you can do, I've got a list of 30-40 of them. Those things can be templated out and then given to the contractor. When you do that there is much less room for error on their part and if they're not getting the job done then, then you know you need to find somebody else. So your question earlier about how do you know when to fire somebody - if you're done your job as the manager and you've left no room for excuses on their end, whether that's your availability or your lack of clarity on the projects, and they're still not getting it done, then it's on them. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Jaime: Totally.

Dave: If it's on them, then it's time to move on.

Jaime: How do you create those blueprints? Are you making Jing videos for people?

Dave: I do that.

Jaime: Okay, give me all your blueprint ideas so that way we can replicate things like that.

Dave: I use Jing a lot. Actually I use Camtasia more because you can edit.

Jaime: And it's longer than five minutes.

Dave: Right. So you can edit. I use Google Docs a lot. In the project management software I've got a whole library of training documents so it's taking those creation points, the videos and the Google documents and all of those different things, and then just drawing out, very specifically, what you want done and obviously you have to write those documents knowing that they're going to change a little bit, going forward, but they have the general theme that you want. Then you upload them and it's all there for access any time they want. What happens then is you have much less risk in your business because you have that documentation and now, if someone leaves, they disappear, they're not doing their job, whatever it is, it's very easy to find somebody else that can look at that documentation. So I find a worker, I say "Look at my documentation. Can you do this?" and they say yes or no, or a lot of the time they don't say no, they just don't respond. But if they do respond and they say "I can do all of this stuff. I can do this, I've done this in my past job, I've done this," then you know you've got someone who is a good candidate for a test and then you test them and see what happens. If you enjoy working with them, then you've got somebody.

Jaime: Nice.

Dave: More of it is written than it is video. I used to use video a lot but I found, with the video, that as things change you have to redo the whole video.

Jaime: That makes sense. One thing I've used, and maybe you can give me some tips on this because it works well sometimes and doesn't work well other times, is training, like a friend of mine will have a really cool training on Facebook and I'm like "That was really awesome. I'm going to send it to so-and-so and have them implement it." Sometimes it goes really well, sometimes it doesn't, so give me some tips and advice - is that something that you do and can we just sort of offload that or do you like going through and actually creating those yourself?

Dave: That's kind of a tough one but I do it myself. It's not always easy to send information to a contractor. I will listen to it and vet it and understand it and probably even try it before I would have anyone implement it. I'll build my own notes on that, because there are going to be parts of it that I want to remove and probably additions that I've got to make so I wouldn't take anybody else's system verbatim and have that implemented in my business.

Jaime: Is that tough for you, as far as time goes? Because it seems like you're almost doing the first part of all of the tasks that you would need to have somebody else do?

Dave: Even if I've got some great training on Facebook, like your example, I'm the person who understands that marketing side of it, I understand my customers, so I've got to give that whole training my kind of spin and I've got to decide where in my site to implement it and what pieces to put where. In my mind, that would be putting a lot on a contractor to just take that and fly with it.

Jaime: There's too many decision points.

Dave: Way too many. Once I have that training and once I've vetted it and once I know that it works, or let's say I don't vet it and I just want to give it a try I might, if I really trust one of my team members, I might say "Take this to phase one," and then maybe I'll come in and do phase two, in terms of making it better or giving it my thoughts or whatever. I might have somebody else watch that and put notes around it but, either way, it's got to be my own team's notes and our processes. Do you know what I'm saying? I just don't want to have a bunch of different kinds of files because I feel like it gets lost then. I feel like it gets lost and I feel like it's not tangible.

Jaime: And confusing and it can be all over the place.

Dave: And it's hard to follow up with.

Jaime: My mentor always used to tell me the difference between delegating and abdicating - delegating is where you give somebody something to do but you check in with them and you make sure you know what they're doing beforehand and abdicating is going "Here - do this? and then saying "How come you didn't do this?"

Dave: Again, you can only do that if you have A players.

Jaime: That's the thing - so how do we determine whether or not they're A players? I'm currently trying to find a project manager that can make decisions because I am at the failure of decision point right now and I'm so busy that trying to have everybody contact me for the decision point is very difficult so I'm looking to hire someone else that can actually make decisions, which will hopefully free me up, of course. Do you have any advice on doing that? You're shaking your head!

Dave: What I do is I look for four people and use your company and your projects as the interview process. Go to them and say "I'm going to test this out. We're going to see how we work together. Here's a project I need done," and then you will find one of those four, or maybe zero of those four and then you have to find more people. But, for me, it's all about whether they can perform in a real business environment and you'll see those decisions that they make. I said before, spec things out and be very detailed, but this is where I would back off and give them no guidance.

Jaime: And see what they can really do.

Dave: Yes, because that's the only time you're going to see what somebody can really do and you're going to find out which one of those four responds the best and then, working with them more and more and more, you'll find comfort with one of those people.

Jaime: Throw them in the fire and see who comes out! That's cool. So tell me a little bit more about being able to have a project manager or something like that - do you then give them free rein? Give me the step by step specs on training someone to make decisions for you, because that's a huge relationship that needs to happen.

Dave: I do flowcharts, like Google Docs has a flowchart which is called Google Draw or something along those lines. I do flowcharts and I'll do that on decision processes. Those things are very structured, they have to be, but again, your project manager, if all they're doing is managing projects they can look at that job and say "What do we have to do on a daily basis? We have to follow up with the employees." That's step one, so I would put it in my Google Doc - for this job description I would put in the Google Doc "The very first thing you do in the morning is follow up with all of the employees," and then step two, whatever they do next. So you have to spec it out, whatever they do on a daily basis. So you spec out your day and then you can offload that to these people.

Jaime: Awesome. I'm writing that down. I know we have to start wrapping up in just a minute so before I ask the last question I want to talk about Hubstaff just a little bit. Tell people what it does because I don't think I explanted it all that well and let us know how it can help in managing virtual teams. Maybe I'm not using it to its full potential so perhaps you can help me use it better too.

Dave: What it does is it tracks the time that your team is spending on different projects and then you can take that time and pay your employees. If you're a freelancer you can take that time and invoice your clients. You can get a better insight on what your team is doing - a perfect example is that I have a programmer that, because I didn't have the space and because the project is new, he'll be doing some customer support. Well, I'll find, let's say, 30 days down the road that half of his time is spent on customer support but I wouldn't know that unless I had a tool telling me that. So what Hubstaff does is it allows your remote employees to select projects and then track what they're actually doing and you get reports on a daily basis to see what Joe, for example, did during the day. He spent four hours on support, even though Joe is a programmer, and four hours programming. So now you understand why your programming is not moving forward eight hours a day. It's a management issue because your programmer is not going to come to you and say "I'm doing too much customer support, we need to change things up." We give better data to the managers. Hubstaff takes screenshots, it tracks activity levels.

Jaime: That's huge, by the way.

Dave: That's an easy way to test and vet one employee versus another. My good employees are at 80% on Hubstaff all day long, consistently.

Jaime: Okay, mine are like 60-70%. That's good to know.

Dave: 60-70% is not bad.

Jaime: But I could do better. That's good to know.

Dave: You could maybe do a little bit better, yeah. But you want that consistent, across the board kind of feeling.

Jaime: Which is huge, because I had someone come in for a month trial and I'm looking at their numbers compared to everybody else's and they were 20-30%. That's not cool

Dave: Right.

Jaime: And you can go in and check and see.

Dave: Part of it is what they're doing - like if they're doing design work. Hubstaff works by tracking the number of mouse movements and keyboard strokes. Design is a lot slower, more tedious, so you're going to have lower statistics depending on what they're actually doing.

Jaime: Yes, I take that into account.

Dave: Our ultimate goal is to get better data into the management's hands so that they can make better decisions on a daily basis. If, as a manager, you spend five or maybe fifteen minutes a day versus three or four hours, that's a huge difference.

Jaime: That's huge. I always get the e-mail every morning - "This is how many hours they worked the day before," and that's really cool. The other day it was 57 hours or something worked that night and I was like "That's really awesome. I slept and 57 hours of work were done." It makes you feel better. It was great. So I really appreciate Hubstaff just in general. We do have to wrap up so why don't you give me the answer to what's one action listeners can take this week to help move them forward towards their goal of $1 million?

Dave: I would say figuring out how to better bring customers into your business. Because you're never going to get to $1 million if you can't bring in customers. Even if you don't have a product yet - some people might not have a product, they might be vetting a product, trying to figure out if it's the right product for them or how to get to market fast or they might already have a product - either way, before you do anything else, you've got to figure out "Is this something that we can bring customers into?" and then figure out the dollar amount it costs to acquire a new customer. If you have that dollar amount, then you understand what you can pay for advertising.

Jaime: How do we do that? How do we do that when we're at the beginning? I get that a lot - that's a really key thing that people need to know but it's hard to figure that out. Do we guesstimate it? What do you do?

Dave: With Hubstaff, for example, we were able to go out, find advertising spaces, bring customers in and, based on the trials, because there were trials and we had to make certain of assumptions - like we talked about, Hubstaff was in beta for 14 months - so you have to make certain assumptions like, for instance, 15% of the trials that we're getting are going to become paid customers and they're going to became paid at this level. So you have to make some assumptions, especially when you don't have any data, but you could just very easily slap up a payment page before you even have the product built and collect the money or just track who's clicking on what plans, for example, before you even have the product ,so you can track in Google Analytics, or whatever you use, who's clicking on what buttons for the different prices and you just take into account the conversion rate, what you spent and what you would have collected given, let's say, a 15% conversion rate on that plan.

Jaime: Testing, testing, testing - getting as much data as you can, guesstimating as much as you can and then proving it out. It's a pain but it works.

Dave: And then, from there, it's all about building that process and blueprinting the process to get the customers in. Always put the customer first and get feedback from your customers - they're the people who are going to tell you which direction to go in with the business and the faster that you go in the right direction with your product, the faster you're going to get to $1 million.

Jaime: Definitely. Awesome. Thank you so much, Dave. Where can we find out more about Hubstaff? Are you still doing free trials? Tell us a little bit about that stuff.

Dave: Yes, there are free 30 day trials and we have a referral plan for up to three users so it's completely free for up to three users and no credit card required on that.

Jaime: Nice.

Dave: I've got a book and there's all kinds of information on the blog - that's blog.hubstaff.com and hubstaff.com is the URL where you can get the software.

Jaime: That's what happened to me - I signed up for the free trial and I was like "Shoot, I need to add more people!" and we ended up chatting so it worked out really well. Thank you so much for coming on the show today, Dave, I really appreciate it.

Dave: Thank you, I enjoyed it.

Jaime: I hope you liked that interview with Dave. I loved the company even before I knew he was going to come on my show and now I like it even more so it was really awesome to have him on. As I said in the interview, I really, really enjoy Hubstaff. I highly recommend it if you're dealing with virtual workers - you can always go on and see what their activity level is. I use oDesk and Elance and, while theirs is okay, I like Hubstaff a lot better. So if you want to sign up for Hubstaff, just go to EventualMillionaire.com/hubstaff, which tells him that I sent you, and I hope you have an amazing day. Take care!

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Tags: Dave Nevogt, Hubstaff, Human Resources, millionaire interview, Outsourcing, team management, team management software, Virtual assistance, virtual staff, virtual team, Work Delegation

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Millionaire Interviews

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