Achieve your Vision With Cameron Herold

Business Coach, Business Mentor and CEO Coach – Cameron Herold

Here’s what you?ll learn from Cameron about Achieve your Vision:

– The simple “Jigsaw Puzzle” method Cameron uses with all of his coaching clients and the reason why it’s so successful.
– Why hiring is a “sales funnel” process and how to hire only people who share your vision.

– How to avoid getting stuck doing busy work and focus only on things that matter.
– You need to hire for culture and train for skill, right? Wrong! Discover why you’re shooting yourself in the foot when you compromise on skill. (And why you need both.)
– The 11 questions Cameron asked ME about being bipolar (with my answers!) and how most entrepreneurs have something that is an asset not a fault.

Tune in and listen: Achieve your Vision With Cameron Herold

Cameron’s Website:

CameronHerold.com

Transcript: Download

Video Transcription provided by GMR Transcription Services.

Jaime Masters:	Welcome to Adventure Millionaire. I'm Jaime Masters and I'm so excited to have Cameron Herold on the show. You can check him out at cameronherold.com. He had two $100 million companies before the age of 35 which makes me feel crappy because I'm 35 - no. [Laughs] And he has two amazing books. One's called Meetings Suck and the other is Double Double and you guys should definitely check them out. Thanks so much for coming on the show today, Cameron. 

Cameron Herold:	Hey, Jaime, you're welcome. It's funny, I was talking to someone last night and they were 26 years old and they were saying, "Wow, you guys are just so much more successful and older." And we were sitting at a table next to a friend of mine at a restaurant last night and I said, "You know, when I was 26 years old, I was on welfare, I was living in a friend's basement apartment, I had just come back from traveling around the world and had spent all my money. I had no job so, in 25 years you can do an awful lot."

Jaime Masters:	See, this is good - yay! Thank you for making us feel better. I really appreciate it. Because that's the thing that I think - comparing is not good. I totally understand that that's not a good thing. And yet it's really, really difficult to not do. 

Cameron Herold:	So, compare down, don't compare up. I actually said that last night Compare against all the people who have less than you have, and you'll feel really good every day. Stop comparing against flying private and having your own private island, because you'll never be happy.

Jaime Masters:	See, and I don't even care about the stuff as much as I care about the brilliance, right? And the evolution that I feel like entrepreneurs go through. So, I look at that I'm like, "Oh, the systems that they have." So, when I look at those pieces, I know that stuff takes time, but it's hard not to want more, right? We're entrepreneurs, we always want more. And it's good to look at somebody that has more and go, "Oh, I want that too." How do we deal with the difference of not doing that in our brain so it doesn't suck. 

Cameron Herold:	I teach all of my clients that - let's say that you're driving your car and you're going to be driving towards the horizon. Are you only going to be happy when you get to the horizon' Of course not. You have to look in the rear-view mirror all the time to see how far you've just come and kind of enjoy some of your successes. So, every time I set a goal for the next year, I praise myself or celebrate a goal I just hit from the past year. If I set three goals for the next quarter, I praise myself or celebrate three goals I've hit from the last quarter. If I set two more goals for today, I praise myself for two things I got done yesterday. 

Jaime Masters:	So smart. Entrepreneurs in general are horrible at the ringside. I sometimes have to slap people around and be like, "Did you see what you just did?" and they're like "Oh, yeah, but like I have this problem." Because we're so problem-focused. 

Cameron Herold:	[inaudible] [00:02:21]

Jaime Masters:	Yeah. I think it's good, and not good. 

Cameron Herold:	Yeah. You can't get caught up in that. You cannot focus on the end horizon; you have to look in the rear-view mirror as well. 

Jaime Masters:	How do you actually celebrate your wins then, congratulate yourself? 

Cameron Herold:	I could be just - I could be buying myself something, it could be just writing down that I completed them and feeling good about it. So, I actually do a daily vision for myself where I actually write down what my day's going to be like. And then at the end of the day, I say whether I got each of the sentences completed or not. And that just feels good. I'm like, "Wow, yes, yes, yes" instead of focusing on the part, "No, that didn't work, but look at all the cool stuff I did get." And I also use an app called Commit to Three and every single day, I have two accountability partners - I have a personal accountability partner and a business accountability partner  and I set my top three goals in each of those areas. And at the end of the day, I click off whether I got those done. So, I'm feeling good about getting three big things done every day. 

Jaime Masters:	And you actually have real people  see this is the thing with apps. I'll have an app and then you ignore it. So, having a real accountability person.

Cameron Herold:	Yeah, Joe Polish, he's a business guru, he's my business accountability partner. He sets his daily top three with me, I set mine with him and then I have another friend of mine Gordy Bufton who's an ironman triathlete - I set my daily personals with Gordy and he sets his with me. 

Jaime Masters:	Do you just text them or do you just do it through the app? 

Cameron Herold:	It's through the app. It's called Commit to Three and it costs three bucks for the year. It's super simple and it's really, really powerful. 

Jaime Masters:	Yeah, I want to do that also, especially - yeah, so, I feel like accountability - a lot of people need coaches and you're an amazing coach. I've heard many, many amazing things from you and I feel like, no offense, many coaches don't - aren't very good. So, [laughs].

Cameron Herold:	There's too many - the world is littered with coaches who, you know, they'll ask questions and they use the Socratic method but they've never actually grown companies. I think the difference between what I do and the millions of coaches is, I've actually done this shit. Like, I've done it multiple times, with multiple businesses. And I don't coach the smaller businesses, typically I coach the ones that have bigger issues, bigger employee bases so, yeah, I've just done it more. 

Jaime Masters:	Well, that's the thing that's so important that you can go, 'Oh, this works versus this doesn't, so it's more consultant/coach just in general anyway. How do you diagnose your clients, when they come to you and they've got an amalgam of a whole bunch of different things, how do you diagnose what the most priority problem is?

Cameron Herold:	Well, first off I don't always try to coach them on the urgent, I try to actually build every business like a jigsaw puzzle. So, if you think about it, if I gave you a jigsaw puzzle, what would you look at first?

Jaime Masters:	Edge pieces. That's -

Cameron Herold:	Well, you may start with the edges but, before the edges, where would you typically start?

Jaime Masters:	Oh, well I flip them all over, right?

Cameron Herold:	Right, yeah, you could start seeing the pieces and then you look - you might do the corners first but even before that, you would look at the front of the box to see the picture.

Jaime Masters:	[Laughs] Yeah, I'd better look at the front of the box, yeah.

Cameron Herold:	So, build a business, just like you build a jigsaw puzzle. The first - the picture of your business - the vivid vision is really that four or five-page written description of what your company looks like three years in the future. So, I start with all companies to get them to clarify what they see their company looking like three years from now, and then we can figure out what we're building. So, that's the picture. 

Then the corners of the jigsaw puzzle are where we start next. So, your core values, your core purpose, your BHAG, and your reverse engineering system. The reverse engineering system is kind of like doing the blueprints to make your vision come true. Like building a house. You need to know what you're building, then you need to get the plan. Once you have the plan, then you come into the sides of your jigsaw puzzle, which are your people systems, strategic thinking systems, your meeting rhythms and your financial systems. 

Jaime Masters:	Hmm. Why only those four?

Cameron Herold:	That's really the order of operations of building any company. Everyone talks about, "Oh, let's put in a Wii room with free massages for everybody." I mean, well, great but if you have a bunch of shitty employees who don't know where they're going, who aren't living the core values, who have no idea why we're building the company, all that stuff doesn't matter. So, the culture stuff is in the center of the jigsaw puzzle - that's all the big shiny objects - that's the stuff you get to last. So, that's how I coach people, along that path. 

Jaime Masters:	Should companies that are smaller - I know you work with three to five million dollar companies, you really work on the COO side, so - should companies that are smaller do that exact same process?

Cameron Herold:	1000 percent. That's how we built every small company into something big. I was out last night for dinner with the founder of 1-800-GOT-JUNK. That's a company that I'm very well known for having built. And I took them from 14 employees to 3100 employees. From $2 million to $106 million in six years, without giving - we gave up no equity and we had no debt. But, all of the systems that I talk about in coaching - everything I cover in Double Double is exactly how we built that company. You have to start with the core. You have to understand where you're going, what's your purpose, what's your BHAG, what are your values. And you have to live those things. We were laughing last night about some of the very early, early stage employees that we signed. They only joined us because they were aligned with our vision. They were the same culture kind of people that we were. We knew how to interview them and how to select them and how to onboard them. And we were laughing about how we had to money to pay them but we didn't give them equity, but we signed them up for the dream. That's an art. 

Jaime Masters:	Tell us more about that. Because that's the thing, as entrepreneurs, especially the first few hires, right, if we don't - let's assume we have the vision and everything that you would like beforehand. Because if they don't, that's not good. So, do that, number one. But number two, how do we find those right employees that are willing to do it because I've also seen where people are trying to get a deal from an employee. Know what I mean? They're like, "Oh, no - this person- they have the right? it seems like they have the right culture fit, but they don't have the skill set." Or maybe they aren't really good fits so we're trying to get a good deal out of them. 

Cameron Herold:	Neither one of those works. You have to hire for culture and for skill both. And you can't compromise ever. You have to work harder at finding people. 

Jaime Masters:	But what if you have no money - how do you get them to say yes. Give me the tactics to get them to say yes.

Cameron Herold:	Well, you can outsource, you can use sub-contractors if you can't afford full time people as well. Maybe you don't need a full-time employee yet, maybe you just need a part time person to get you there. Or maybe you outsource and have a fractional person. Or maybe you just use your network more and you just work really hard - I'm looking right now for a full-time salesperson who will be 100 percent commission, but I want them to be able to earn between $80,000 and $120,000 per year. 

I'll give them a small draw for the first three months so they're guaranteed to make - be sure they can get there. But I want someone who's hungry and keen who wants to sell for me. And I'm just going to use my network and I'll push it out hard and I'll find somebody. But I'll work very, very hard to find that person. But my job posting is being written by a copy writer. So, it's going to pop off the page. 

Jaime Masters:	Oh, I love - can I see - are we allowed to share that after you finders' 

Cameron Herold:	Sure, for sure.

Jaime Masters:	That's amazing - because it's really - so, I get this question all the time, 'I try and look in my network, and it doesn't seem like it works." How many people are you trying to get in to have interviews before you're like, "Okay, this is a good solid one." 

Cameron Herold:	Yeah, so I actually tell my clients that as well, it's kind of - I'll use a sales funnel approach for recruiting. So, it's like, how many resumes do I need that I can weed through to see resumes that are worth reading, to bring into a group interview, to do a first interview, to do a second interview, to do reference checks, to have an offer that's accepted. So, you typically need about 40 to 50 resumes to end up with one hire.

Jaime Masters:	One good hire [laughs]. 

Cameron Herold:	Otherwise, you're just hiring with a pulse and that's pointless. 

Jaime Masters:	Well, that was the piece - I had always said to have actually two people that you actually like because the hard thing is that, especially new entrepreneurs aren't really great at hiring, they're like, "This person sounds really good, I mean, compared to the rest of them, they were really good." But it's like, you only had this many people that you talked to. That's not good. 

Cameron Herold:	And most entrepreneurs don't start with what they want to hire - so, what are the five things that the new hire needs to get done in their first year with you. And then interview and hire people only if they've done them before. So, you're hiring people who have done what you need them to do, not people who know how to do it. I could give a shit about theory and all the book learning that people do, I want to know if you've done it. And I'll work harder to find someone who's done it before. So, right now the sales person I'm looking for is someone who's actually done sales for Cutco. I really want to find a Cutco sales person because they get it, they sell, they can handle rejections and they've built their entire business off referrals. So that's what I'm looking for.

Jaime Masters:	It's amazing how many people I've interviewed like Hal Elrod and Peter Voogd, all the guys from Cutco, I'm like, "Dude, what are they doing at that company?" They make crazy, amazing entrepreneurs. 

Cameron Herold:	Hal Elrod was my co-author for The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs, we wrote that together. 

Jaime Masters:	Everybody should get that. Hal's amazing. A good friend here in Austin. So, it's a little contrary, what you're saying, to what people mostly say, "Hire for culture and we can train for skill." But you're saying, "No, no, no, we want people to actually know what they're doing." 

Cameron Herold:	Who are the people who are saying that? They have a successful business?

Jaime Masters:	Right? See - this is - this is why I interview millionaires. 

Cameron Herold:	The old adage was - hire for attitude, train for skill. But that doesn't work and it was taught to you by a university professor who's never hired or interviewed anybody. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay, so, this is the whole reason I have this show. Because, there are people that write books, and I realize after I wrote my book that they don't fact check anything. And so, having actual people that are actually doing it, and getting that information to me on what works versus what doesn't work, especially in this day and age with technology, extremely important. So, when we're hiring that - let's say we - fingers crossed - have the right person, how do we on-board them and how do we get them up to speed as fast as humanly possible?

Cameron Herold:	I'll give you an example. I just hired someone who's heading up my sales and marketing for me and she's super-qualified, really strong. And I just told her I want her to spend two or three weeks doing nothing but learning about my business. She was super keen to get started and working on stuff and I'm like, "No, stop. I want you to watch all my speaking videos, I want you to talk to all the members of the CO Alliance, I want you to read through all three of my books. I want you to go through all of my blog posts. I really want you to know the business, come to the CO Alliance event that we're holding in June." Like, really get to know the business before you're out there running, thinking that you can apply your skills to it. 

She's like, "Wow, nobody really thinks that way." And I'm like, "Well, if I get your skillset up in my business, and really understanding it, then your skills match with what you know are going to be much stronger so just slow down, let's get really immersed." And most people really won't do that - they throw someone into the work right away. 

Jaime Masters:	Well, and it's tough because we're like, we hire someone, we're finally have that person, they can finally take stuff off your plate. And they're training at the same time so entrepreneurs feel overwhelmed with the onboarding process in general. So, what do you suggest as far as how much time you give them in that two to three-week process? 

Cameron Herold:	How much time I spend with them?

Jaime Masters:	Yeah, you're just like, "Here are all the books and everything, go and then ask questions later?"

Cameron Herold:	Yeah, like I don't actually train them, I get them to train themselves. They can listen in on my podcasts, they can listen in when I do interviews, I'll actually audio record myself talking to a prospect. They can read my emails that I've written to people so they can see how I talk. I'm not going to physically sit beside them and train them so much as I am get themselves immersed in what I've already done or am doing, that's first. And secondly, it's putting time into the calendar so that we have two 30 to 60 minute calls every single week together; over video so that I can be there and ask questions and really help align them. 

Jaime Masters:	How long do you usually do that for?

Cameron Herold:	I do that forever. 

Jaime Masters:	Wait, two 30 to 60 minute calls every week with each employee?

Cameron Herold:	Yeah, with my direct reports. 

Jaime Masters:	Oh, with your direct reports, okay. 

Cameron Herold:	So, I can mentor them.

Jaime Masters:	That's amazing. Okay. So, tell me more about. . .

Cameron Herold:	A professional athlete works with their coach a couple times a week. Why wouldn't you coach your key employees? 

Jaime Masters:	Because usually people are running around like crazy, entrepreneurs going, "I have this! And then I have this!" And they don't put the time where they're supposed to. So, how do you make that time?

Cameron Herold:	Stop working on your email first thing in the morning, and start planning what are the highly most critical items to work on, and work on those. And the busy work will take care of itself later. But most people won't do that, they'll just get sucked into the busy work. 

Jaime Masters:	How do we not get sucked into the busy work? Please help us - how do we not get sucked into the busy work?

Cameron Herold:	No one is holding a gun to your head telling you to check your email first thing. 

Jaime Masters:	Why is so hard not to though? It's what we were just talking about - ADD and entrepreneurship and stuff. Why does it feel so difficult to not do those things. 

Cameron Herold:	Well, the science of it - there's a dopamine rush with feeling good about getting stuff done. So, you're trying get stuff done and you're feeling like you're getting stuff done, but it's like that Pavlovian response. Well, now instead of getting sucked into that stuff, get your lists done. Get your plan done. Feel good about getting the important stuff done. Get an accountability partner who will focus you on getting your stuff done. 

And slow down to think about what's important, versus just being busy. If you're in your car right now, and start driving around, you can be driving all day but if you don't know where you're going, it will never take you there. 

Jaime Masters:	So easy to say, so much harder to do in actuality, when people are like, "Oh, there might be a fire" and blah blah blah. Because, I think the ADD side of us, "Where we're like, we have this, and we have this, and I feel like I'm all over the place in getting things done and checking things off the list." But again, none of the priority things matter because we haven't actually chosen the priority things. So, how do you specifically . . .

Cameron Herold:	That's why a lot of people don't get much done until the day before they go on vacation. Right?

Jaime Masters:	So, how do you actually pick those top three things every day?

Cameron Herold:	I'm very clear what my goals are for the three-year period, because I did the vivid vision that describes my company three years from now, and then I do my set of annual goals so I see what my top ten projects that I'm working on to drive toward my revenue profit customer engagement numbers. All of that goes down into my quarterly projects and I just focus on reverse engineering a lot. 

Jaime Masters:	And a lot of this is in Meetings Suck so everyone can go and learn more about those pieces. Because we've heard this over and over and a lot of people have heard it but don't actually implement it. 

Cameron Herold:	I think the biggest book of all my three books for anybody who's listening is The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs. That's the core - Hal wrote the first half of the book - I wrote the last half of the book and we merged all of our content together to really help, not only kick start your day, but get focused and work on the most critical pieces. So, I cover the vivid vision, I cover the content on focus, I cover really - on how to get more shit done with less people, faster. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay, so, I've read Miracle Morning, I've read - because I know Anna Ray who wrote a couple books with him also here, and so, should I read Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs because it's got separate stuff just for us? 

Cameron Herold:	That's it.

Jaime Masters:	Okay. Give me some of those pieces right now. I would love to know. 

Cameron Herold:	Well, the vivid vision is one of them. Most entrepreneurs have an idea in their mind what they're building but it hasn't been clarified and shared so that everyone else can see what you can see. So, that's the first part. The second part is just the principle of focus. Working on the most critical few things instead of the important many. How to set your goals. How to make sure that your goals are measurable. Most people put goals down but I say that every goal has to have a dollar sign, a number sign or a percentage sign in the goal. Otherwise, it's not measurable. So, just very simple practices. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay. So, do you look at that every - walk me through what your morning is like - because it's early for you right now, so you're probably just did it, so give us what your morning routine is.

Cameron Herold:	Yes, my morning routine is I do a gratitude journal first thing in the morning, where I actually fill out my day of what I'm happy for and what a great day will look like and then I do my morning vision for myself. I send myself an email about what my day is like. And I do it as if the day is already over. 

So, it's not what I'm going to be working on, but it's like, today I had an amazing run in the endowment lens and I ran for five miles and my feet felt good, my heart felt good. And I came back and I did 30 minutes of yoga, just to kind of reset my brain and that was amazing. I decided to have dinner with a friend down at the waterfront and we went down and he and I hung out and started to chat about our life. Like, you just write about it. And then at the end of the day, you kind of say yes to every sentence, whether or not you got them done. So, that's a harnessing.

	And then I do my Commit to Three's. I say what my top three business and top three personal goals are. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay, so, I do the self-journal, but mine's all tactical. And what I'm hearing from you when you're talking about your day is, you're like, "Oh, I felt like this, I felt like that." You make it way more feeling based than I thought. Why do you do that instead?

Cameron Herold:	When you can feel it, it just helps the whole conceive, believe, achieve - is that if you can really feel your goals happening, there's a better chance that you will. It does something with the brain and it sets yourself and sets the intentions stronger. Versus a goal that you can make an excuse of. 

Jaime Masters:	So, data isn't as sexy for our brain as actually feeling really, really good or whatever it is, okay. 

Cameron Herold:	In addition, you only want to attract employees who can feel it as well. You only want to hire employees who can feel what the future feels like and they're excited about that. 

Jaime Masters:	How do you determine that?

Cameron Herold:	Let them read it. 

Jaime Masters:	And they go, "Ooh, I love this?" Like, what do they -[laughs]

Cameron Herold:	That's what they do, they're like, "Oh my god." Steve Jobs 30 years ago, showed the wooden prototype of the Macintosh to employees and he said if he didn't see the twinkle in their eyes, he didn't bring them in to interviews to see if they had the skills because he didn't care if they had the skills. He only wanted people that were vibrating in their seats and that had the skills. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay. And as long as we have enough prospects, potential candidates, then we can find those people. Because I feel like that's an issue that people come up with over and over and over, "I can't find the right people. It's so hard to find the right people." 

Cameron Herold:	Well, then work on that, and not on your email. Work on how to find more people. How to cast a bigger net. How to build your own network. How to make job postings that rock. Most people's job postings suck because they write them or a job person wrote them. Take your job posting and have a copy writer rewrite it so it pops off the page. 

Jaime Masters:	I remember when I was in tech, I was an engineer and I applied to the same company three times. They did not hire me from that. I hired a recruiter ' they had to pay me two times what they would before. And they were like, "Why couldn't we find somebody like you?" and I'm like, "I applied three times. Thank you. I appreciate it."

Cameron Herold:	That's awful. 

Jaime Masters:	It is awful. But it's tough, because when entrepreneurs aren't good at hiring yet, it's a skillset that they really, really need. And yet they don't put the effort into it. 

Cameron Herold:	Right, I take it for granted because I was a part of the company years ago called College Pro Painters that had to hire 9,000 people every year. And I was on the top leadership team of that company, in the top 30 people. So, I was having to hire and train people, I had recruitment interviews so I actually really understand it at a level that most people never would.

Jaime Masters:	So, how do get - so my best friend has a recruiting company and I ask her all the time - for sales people - I ask her all the time, ok, what are the nuances? How do we figure this out? Because I feel like this is a learned thing that none of us can get that wisdom from you, no matter how many tactics you give us. 

Cameron Herold:	Read a book called Who. It's very simple, it's very digestible. Brad and Jeff Smart are kind of the world experts on interviewing and recruiting. So, just start with that. I think if you really obsess about that book - read it, dog ear it, highlight it, re-read it, talk to your friends about it, obsess about that book - your interviewing skills will get really strong. 

Jaime Masters:	You just have to do it, people, just reading it is not enough. You actually have to take the action.

Cameron Herold:	I actually tell people, "Stop reading books at random, and start reading books about what you want to get better at." This whole like - read another book, read another book, read another book - like - why? It's too fuckin' random. Like, why don't read about things you want to get better at? And then only read about that until you're good at it. And do what the experts say, and . . .

Jaime Masters:	Yes, I feel the exact same way, like, oh, it's good feedback.

Cameron Herold:	If you read Good to Great and you're like, "Oh, it's amazing." Did you do the headshot concept? No. Are you working on the one to five leadership? No. Are working on core values? No. Why did you read the damn book? 

Jaime Masters:	They're like, "Maybe I got one little thing from it." So, to me, though -

Cameron Herold:	You wasted eight hours. If you're going to read an expert's book and not do what they're doing, then don't read the book in the first place. We're not trying to inspire you. I could give a shit if I inspire someone. I'm trying to vie them the tools to grow their company. Otherwise, save the four hours, and don't read the book.

Jaime Masters:	So, anybody that's read Cameron's book right now, go back, do the frickin' thing because he's gonna get mad - no. [Laughs] It's true. Even with the information overload that we have in general, even with podcasts, I tell my clients to stop listening to podcasts - stop reading books, all of that. Because we just are ADD and we decide, oh, I listened to this podcast, they said this book is amazing, that sounds wonderful, I'm going to read that. And they take them on different trajectories, and then we can't get anything done. 

Cameron Herold:	It just totally distracts you, and it also stresses you out because you add more random stuff to your list that you think you need to get done, and it feels [sneezes] more overwhelming.

Jaime Masters:	Yeah, and now I have a thousand new ideas and I can't do any of those either and now I feel even crappier. Yay - go entrepreneurship!

Cameron Herold:	The best companies that I coach, are the ones that focus their learning around - not the urgent - but around the core things they need to be getting better at and that's where they apply their effort. And if you become that mono-maniac with a mission, you will scale. 

Jaime Masters:	So, isn't it quarterly basis kind of thing, like these are the skillsets we're trying to learn right now? 

Cameron Herold:	Yeah, what are the projects you're working on this quarter, and what skills do we need to make sure we knock those out of the park? And then every quarter, focus your learning for you and your employees, around what you're building.

Jaime Masters:	Do you measure that? I mean, yeah, it's kind of intangible to measure.

Cameron Herold:	What?

Jaime Masters:	The learning side of it - like, oh, I know this more. 

Cameron Herold:	No, it's not intangible. So, you can actually build - everything can have a model built around it. So, I have a certification model around our leadership skills. So, I train all leaders on situational leadership, interviewing, problem solving, coaching, delegation, time management, email management, problem solving, classroom teaching, and effective meetings. So, ten core skills that every one of them gets trained in. 

I use a pre-test, a post-test, a retention test and a certification model for every skill. So, the pre-test shows them that they haven't got a clue what this is covering. Then they learn it, then they do a post-test to show they just learned it. Six weeks later, they do a retention test - the same test but to see if they've actually remembered what they learned. And then they're allowed to be certified in the skill, which is when they show that they're using the skill, and they're certified in bronze, silver and gold. If they're certified in gold, they can certify anyone else in the company in this skill. 

Jaime Masters:	Let's do this.

Cameron Herold:	Most don't do this. They're like read a book. I'm like, what was that for?

Jaime Masters:	So, what do you tell somebody who doesn't have the capacity right now to create a system as hard core as that, especially in leadership. 

Cameron Herold:	Well, the systems exist. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay, give us reading on leadership that - or whatever else if leadership is a big piece.

Cameron Herold:	The One Minute Manager is still the best book of all time on coaching and management, on leadership. The best book of all time. The whole concept of situational leadership is what the book was based on. Dr. Paul Hosie and Ken Blanchard - it's still used by the best companies on the planet. Read it, read it, read it, have your employees read it, read it, talk about it.

Jaime Masters:	Okay. And then how do we judge whether or not they're doing it if we don't have retention tests - a post test and a retention test? 

Cameron Herold:	While reading the book, highlight all the cool stuff that you're reading about and then take all the stuff you highlighted and build a pre-test on that. Here's 15 different things, now make a test. What's this? I don't know, because I haven't read the book. What's this? I don't know. After you read the book, you'll be able to answer them, six weeks later, to see if they remember them, and then certify someone in their ability to coach. 

Jaime Masters:	You make it sound so simple, Cameron. I get it's simple. 

Cameron Herold:	If you focus, it's simple. But, most people won't focus. They'll work hard. They're like a fly trying to get out the window. But there's a door right here, just turn and go out the door, it's open. 

Jaime Masters:	[Laughs] That's so sad. Someone is just banging their head against the wall - that's how it feels. That's how we deal with people that come and go do the same thing over and over and we try and get through the window, and we can't.

Cameron Herold:	Work harder. That's gonna work for you? No. It's not about working harder, it's about working smarter. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay, tell me more about that because there's the whole hustle thing. I was chatting with some people last night and they're like, "Oh, I went hardcore today." I was like, "Oh, good for you.". Not that I don't do that occasionally, but oh my gosh.

Cameron Herold:	But in what direction did you go hard core? Where are you going? Because if you don't know where you're going, any way will take you there. You know, why are you going to that conference? Like, people keep saying to me - I won't say the name of the conference - but, "Why don't you go, why don't you go?" And I'm like, "Everyone is too young, their businesses are too small, they're really not my network, I'm not gonna learn, I'm not gonna build any really strong connections, it's not worth my time. 

But I'll go to the Main Tent conference every year, because I'm hanging out with the true players who are actually building real companies. So, like, figure out where to apply your time and then focus on that. 

Jaime Masters:	I just read a whole post about how I'm not a huge fan of conferences because of that, people randomly go because they're like, "Oh, there's cool people there," and I'm like, "That doesn't have anything to do with what you're actually working on." 

Cameron Herold:	It's amazing. I go to Mastermind talks every single year, I go to the Main Tent conference every single year, I'm part of the Genius Network, I go to Gene Sullivan's Ten-X for strategic coaching, all plugged into the very elite groups and I'll make sure that I'm learning from them. And, if I'm a younger business, I'll join the group but I'll do what I'm supposed to be doing. I'll do the work. 

Jaime Masters:	Because that's how you get the results. Huh, who knew?

Cameron Herold:	Ya' think?

Jaime Masters:	It's hard because it's so logical and everyone's like, "Yes, I've heard this before blah, blah, blah." But, it's the implementation part that's difficult. I like you shaking your head, tell me more. 

Cameron Herold:	Well, because it's god and grandmother's rules are all we really need. Business is so simple if we just find out what we're supposed to do. But if we wake up in the morning and do email, that wasn't on the list of critical things.

Jaime Masters:	You're like, Yes! So, like, simple - a lot of people don't think it's easy. So, especially - let's talk about the ADD - the craziness of entrepreneurs. Because I also feel like we're sort of counteracting ourselves, like you said. Emotionally, loneliness, all sorts of other stuff that comes along. So, it's unfortunately, it's not as - just do it by the book because crap comes up in yourself. And sometimes you can't get out of bed in the morning. So, tell me more about how we as entrepreneurs counteract the ADD - you were talking about bi-polar, most of them have bipolar. Tell me more about that. 

Cameron Herold:	Sure. So, Attention Deficit Disorder is not a disorder for entrepreneurs. It's a strength that we have that we see everything that's happening. We see what's going on with our market, the economy, the time, our customer, our financials, our sales. We see it all and we don't get too bogged down in the details so if we're good, we hire people who are detail-oriented and we delegate faster. But if we try to do it all, then yeah, the ADD can get in your way. But if you recognize that your ADD Allows you to see to see everything, but delegate it and get it off the plate, that's better. 


The bi-polar disorder - the mania - most entrepreneurs would be clinically diagnosed as bi-polar or very high on the spectrum. I can read you the list of traits that describe bi-polar disorder. 

Jaime Masters:	If you have them, I would love to - because we were just talking about that. 

Cameron Herold:	Sure, so, anyone who's listening right now, I'm going to read 11 traits. Just make a little tic-mark for each of these that sound like you. 1.) Are you often filled with energy? 2.) Are you often flooded with ideas? 3.) Are you driven? 4.) Are you restless? 5.) Are you unable to keep still? 6.) Are you often working on little sleep? 7.) Do you get euphoric? 8.) Do you get easily irritated by minor obstacles? 9.) Do you burn out periodically? 10.) Do you act out sexually? Which would be like flirting. 11.) Do you feel persecuted by those who do not accept your vision? 

Jaime Masters:	[Laughs] Everybody hates that! Oh, yeah, okay. Those are 11 things and I'm an 11. Yeah, great, awesome.

Cameron Herold:	I'm an 11 as well. Most - but if you read that list to your banker, they might be two. If you read it to your accountant, they might be two. If you read it to a teacher, they might be three. But entrepreneurs, they, virtually across the board, are between 8 and 11. Those are the clinical diagnosed traits for bi-polar disorder. Those are the traits. 

Jaime Masters:	They sound good. I'm like, good. I mean, I don't like the burn out part but I like the happy ones. 

Cameron Herold:	And a lot of it - our stress is magnified because we can't tell our spouse what's really happening at times, we can't tell our employees what's going on, we're wondering if the business is even going to be successful tomorrow and yet we're trying to recruit a new employee and sell them on the dream. That's freaking stressful. And it's intense. And it burns us out. And we need to operate at this maximum level of excitement which burns us out. So, we need to stop kind of whipping ourselves, going, "Do more. I'm not doing enough." Because that burns us out. And - but we are on the spectrum.

Jaime Masters:	What do we do? How - I'm assuming medication isn't a good thing. Because I think of this as an asset.

Cameron Herold:	No. You don't medicate because that takes away your unique ability. Ted Turner was biolar. Richard Branson was bi-polar. Steve Jobs was bipolar. Henry Ford was bipolar. These are strengths when you recognize them as strengths. So, what you do is, you recognize that, "I'm starting to burn out; I'm going to take some time off in the middle of the day. I'm burning out, I'm not going to work nights." By the way, never work at night, ever. And never work weekends, ever. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay.

Cameron Herold:	Because you'll never get it done. You're never gonna get it all done. You'll never catch up. You're telling yourself a lie. Because you're building these burnout habits for yourself. And you're getting less of the important stuff done. Focus on working seven to eight-hour day maximum, work five days a week, maximum. And take six to eight weeks vacation every year. Period. Your vacation is no business books, no blogs, no business periodicals, conferences are not vacation. Take the vacation time. 

Jaime Masters:	That's what I was going to ask. And like what if we're - okay, so - completely turn off, like a sabbatical almost. 

Cameron Herold:	It's called vacation.

Jaime Masters:	[Laughs] But it's - so, yes, and we have a brain that we can't shut off. We love ideas. And we get excited.

Cameron Herold:	Take up golf, or rock climbing or chess or take up sewing ' fuck ' get some hobbies, get a life outside of business so that you can course-correct your brain and you can reset. But you need to be resetting very often, like a couple times a day even. 

Jaime Masters:	See, I'm trying to go based on how I feel. So, I actually cancelled some interviews today because I wasn't feeling great. So, I'm doing two and then I'm done for the rest of the day, because I'm like, those are gonna suck, I'm not gonna do them if they're gonna suck. So, when we're looking at feeling, I'm okay at that. Yet, I'm a single mom entrepreneur so I literally - every second is full of something that I choose, very specifically. But still, it's a lot. 

Cameron Herold:	But, I would limit your work hours per week to about 40. And delegate everything else except genius. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay. Working on it, working on it. Well, I work 30 hours a week when I actually have kids there, and then the weeks when I don't have them, I probably do about 40 or 50. It's not horrible. 

Cameron Herold:	That's good. But don't work nights. Give yourself time to decompress and watch a movie and go for a walk and hang out with your friends and do yoga. Because the best of the best are the ones that have balance and it allows them to balance their brain. We're seeing a lot right now in the mass media - Elon Musk talking about how unhappy he is and how he's not enjoying life. I've known Elon since 1995. I've known him for 22 years. He worked for me and his cousin worked for me. 

Jaime Masters:	Wow. 

Cameron Herold:	I taught Kimball Musk and Peter Reeve who run [inaudible] [00:33:00]. Elon's not happy right now, it's because he's burning out. He's not doing enough other things. He's too focused on business and his brain is starting to burn out. 

Jaime Masters:	Okay, so, how do we know if we're burning - like I have a little burn out test that I make my clients go through because you can tell their energy just goes to crap. So, how do we tell?

Cameron Herold:	One is you'll feel this kind of metallic taste at the back of your neck. You'll feel this - it's kind of in the back of your neck, towards the base of your brain, you'll swallow and you'll kind of it's not really tasting it but that's the best description I have. That's actually a chemical secretion that's caused by stress that's telling you to slow down. 

Jaime Masters:	Really!

Cameron Herold:	You'll feel the tightness in your chest, is one. You'll feel the intense mania of energy - like, I'm feeling manic right now. I know that I need to decompress today and do some yoga or go for a run. I need to do that. Because it's building. So, breathe, right? And drink water and take your probiotics and your vitamins and realize you're never gonna get it all done. It's okay to slow down. It's okay to just breathe. 

Jaime Masters:	The permission is I think, extremely important, especially from someone like you, who've built huge, huge companies because usually we're like, okay, but then we have to add more to our plates so that way we get more done.  And what you're saying, is that that's the opposite of what will actually make us effective. 

Cameron Herold:	Yeah, it's about getting the critical few things done, it's not about all the important many. 

Jaime Masters:	Yeah, I have to start wrapping up too. I could ask you probably a bazillion more questions, but I'm going to ask you the last one I always ask. What's one thing listeners can do this week to help move them forward towards their goal of a million?

Cameron Herold:	I would say to anyone who's listening right now, to take four hours this week at some point and go somewhere where you're around nature. Where you can decompress, with a notepad, with a book and a pen and start doing a mind map describing what your company feels like in the future, three years from now. Not five, not ten, but three years from now. Start describing your company and start working towards that vivid vision so that you can have a four to five-page written document that describes your company. If they start with that, then all their answers become much clearer. 

Jaime Masters:	Love it. I'm going to link to the interview I did with your - well I don't know if you guys are partners in 1-800-GOT-JUNK? Because he sent us the vivid vision that he has so everybody take a look at that so that you could have something to go on too.

Cameron Herold:	Brian and I had dinner last night. 

Jaime Masters:	Oh, I didn't know that, I should've said to say hi. I still haven't met either - I haven't? met Brian in person but I have - we met in person here in Austin not that long ago. If you could send us that example, that would be amazing, so that everyone could take a look. Please everybody that's listening, do what he says. Literally, do what he says. Because reading his books won't mean anything if you don't have that piece anyway. So, he just gave you genius advice, that you need to go do, especially the getting out in nature part. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Where can we find more about you and your blog posts and all that? 

Cameron Herold:	Yeah, I guess all of my books, Double Double, Meetings Suck and The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs are all available on Amazon, Audible and iTunes, and then my speaking events, if people want to see me speak, they're all available at cameronaherold.com at the tools section. They can actually download and watch my speaking events live there as well. 

Jaime Masters:	And you're really into speaking, I know. So, go and do that everybody. And then he said Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs is probably number one so if that's not it, do that one because that will help for the rest of it and then only add Meetings Suck and Double Double if you're working on it this quarter. Thank you so much for coming on the show today, Cameron, I really appreciate it. 

Cameron Herold:	You're welcome Jaime, thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

Tags: Accountability, business goals, cameron herold, Effective coaching, entrepreneur podcast, Executive Coach, how to be a leader, jaime masters, millionaire entrepreneurs, professional development goals, Sales Funnel, strategic goals, top entrepreneurs, Vision

Categories: All, Coaches, Featured Millionaire Interview, Goal Setting, Goals, Hiring/HR, Mentoring, Mentors and Mastermind, Millionaire Interviews, Sales, Visioning

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